See here I very much disagree. I actually think Odom and Marion are in the same neighborhood as superb role players. But nobody throws Odom accolades at all or if anything he is critized for Lakers' failures. While Marion > Odom, I would say Odom is a lot closer to Marion than Marion is to true superstar forwards like Duncan, KG, Lebron, Melo, Tracy, etc. Odom + something extra for Marion makes a lot of sense to me. (like the deal I suggest above). Odom has a lot better handles and court sense and in some ways might be a better fit for Phx, while Marion can sit there and watch Kobe hog the ball when games are on the line while he used what nutz are left to hit the offensive glass and get ready to play defense. If you want to talk about a totally overrated, totally overpaid, player, try Boris Diaw. You mean let Parker get off for 30 points in the clincher. 2 years ago Duncan and Manu tore up the Suns, this year Parker, Duncan and Manu tore up the Suns. I don't remember Marion containing any of them when it really mattered. Though granted MDA is an idiot for putting Marion on Parker. Should have been Barbosa on Parker, Marion on Manu, and even at times Marion as a change up on Duncan. If Bowen has guarded everyone from Nash to Dirk to Kobe pretty well, if Marion wants that label as a great shut down defender he should relish the oppertunnity.
This is very interesting and I would LOVE to have Marion here over Battier but its just nto going to happen because Marion wants to be the main player on a team and playing behind Tmac and Yao doesnt seem to be the right fit for him. Also he is asking for 20million a season that would REALLY screw us over for years to come. But can you imagine Marion, Tmac, Yao, Scola, and Francis on the floor at the same time? WOW!!!
So if PHX gets Odom, are they still better than the rockets (on paper). Defensively it's a significant drop off. Mac has had trouble against Marion in the past. I think we'd be able to hang with phx.
No. In fact on paper they are already not as good as Houston. But Odom would be much better on the Suns than he is on the Lakers. Odom would be able to do many of the things Marion cannot do on the offensive end, which ultimately would make the Suns more dangerous in a half court situation against the Spurs or Rockets.
Well let's see he said he used ESPN Trade Machine so let's try it: This Trade Succeeded! Go back to adjust your trade or start over. Phoenix Suns Incoming Players John Lucas Salary: $770,610 Years Remaining: 2 Steve Novak Salary: $687,456 Years Remaining: 1 Kirk Snyder Salary: $2,358,433 Years Remaining: 1 Bob Sura Salary: $3,840,000 Years Remaining: 1 Shane Battier Salary: $5,883,600 Years Remaining: 4 Outgoing Players: Shawn Marion Houston Rockets Incoming Players Shawn Marion Salary: $16,440,000 Years Remaining: 2 Outgoing Players: John Lucas, Steve Novak, Kirk Snyder, Bob Sura, Novak has a team option that has not been picked up for next year. Lucas has a team option that has not been picked up for next year. Lucas only has $500,000 guaranteed on his contract. Sura has a team option for this year and only $1 million guaranteed on his contract. Snyder is a restricted free agent. Thus they are all small expiring contracts, plus Shane Battier. So yes it is actually possible. The question is though is it feasible?
Their offense might actually get better as scary as that sounds...but defensively that fall near the 20s or even lower part of the league. I don't know if they would be any better...because Marion is still a better player than Odom. Even though Marion is not a full-fledged supertstar, he is still about a top 5 SF and one of the best players in the league defensively. Him and Raja Bell together cause alot of problems for high scoring sg/sf or pg. He sorta provides defensive protection for Nash against the likes of Parker, Williams, BD, Iverson, (probably would be guarding) Francis or James, and etc. He is crucial for their defense, if he is shipped out of town (and they don't get someone like Ak-47 in return), they're gonna get eaten alive on defense, which has sorta been their Achilles heel. If they just didn't have to play defense they could have title by now. Marion is their best defender, while Bell mostly gets highly touted for the job does on Kobe sometimes.
If you all keep saying Amare is just a product of the Nash offence, same thing should apply to Marion. If anything he's a better defender than he is as an offensive player. And the ugly shot of his.
I read somewhere that Odom still hasn't fully recovered from his injury and will miss part of training camp. He's been injury prone and is currently damaged goods. If it's between the Lakers, Jazz and Rockets, I'd put us in 2nd place behind the Jazz. LO's trade value is really low right now. There's a reason the Pacers didn't want him as part of trading JO.
not even close to the best defender in the league. he is the most versatile defender in the league. He is ok, hes not bad, but people make him out to be one of the best in the league. Hes a #2 or 3 guy. Plus he never shows up in the playoffs
Yep but defense doesn't matter to them. They already dropped their only post defender. They would if they got Odom for Marion go back to the 2005 strategy which was simply score, score, score, no D, no D, no D. After all their two stars Amare and Nash can't guard anyone anyway. It might actually help them dumping Thomas and Marion who play D and rebound and just giving their minutes to Diaw and Odom who don't play D at all and just trying to score 120 every single game. Would it beat San Antonio? Probably not. But they can't beat SA with Marion either. It's probably smarter for them to go all offense against Houston anyway. Against Dallas their problem would be they would have traded their defender of Dirk. In order to match against Dirk they would want a player like Tayshaun Prince, Ron Artest, Shane Battier, or Kirilenko in a trade.
actually Marion's number's have been about the same....( 16.5, 19.2, 19.9, 20.3, and 18.6)..before Nash arrived. He had an offensively game before Nash came to town. It's not like he magically discovered He was already a good defender and rebounder, only thing Nash brought was a higher fg% and easier opportunities. I believe this Sun's team as young as many the players are might be about to hit the celing as far as their chances of championship..especially if Marion leaves...I can see any immediate players that can alleviate what he brings to the table. Their gonna lose alot, if they get Ak-47 in return, they lose good offense...if they get a player like RJ, Odom, or etc...they lose defensive lock-down ability and over all team defense and rebounding. They really don't have another player on the roster who could alleviate that... TO me their best team was 04-05...healthy Amare, younger Nash, Joe Johnson, Shawn Marion, Quentin Richardson, Leandro Barbosa, and Jim Jackson. That team could've pretty much won the title, if it weren't for the Spurs and Pistons.
Like Amare, take Marion out of the Pheonix system and he becomes so much worse. Just think about whenever you watch a Suns game and you will realise that 6-8 of Marion's points come from fast break, transition baskets. If he goes to some of the teams that you fellas have mentioned such as the Bulls or Jazz, he will find himself stuck in a halfcourt offense and will really really struggle IMO. Yes he would still grab his 10 boards 2 blocks, 2 steals but his points will be wayyyyyyy down and his assists will drop as well in a slower paced offense. So, yes he is a very good role player and an above average defender but he is not worth 20 mil, no way. I think whoever picks him up is going to overestimate him and the Suns will get the good end of the deal.
We can rspectfully disagree because we clarly value LO differently. Diaw is totally overpaid, but I'm unclear on him being rated highly, thus overrated. I'd like his talent on the Rox, but not his contract - by a long $ shot.
Like I said in previous post, if it weren't for San Antonio....they would be a champion by now...San Antonio during the last couple season is really the only team in West (outside of Houston) that played downright nasty, stifling defense. And another problem with them they just happened to have an all time great player who is dominate big man who plays defense. Problem #2. Next, they happened to have a great collection of players who can score too....Parker, Ginobili, Barry). Problem #3...their team has a really good coach who does not just have a collection of good players..but he really knows how to work X's and O's. I think more so than alot other coaches (even HOF ones)...he knows how to alter the game plan alot...I remember how well the Spurs could play at times when Duncan was injured or when one of other stars are out...he still finds way to get great effort of his team, make them stay competive. And you know we see why the spurs for now are better the Suns, while I personally think the Rockets are the next team in line in the West to capture an NBA title.
