Well again, you have a better chance of winning a championship with Yao-Iggy than Yao-Butler. And you're talking about a big MAYBE with Chris Paul. We aren't handcuffed with Iggy. The only handcuffing is Dalembert's contract, which would after next season. That's more coming off of the books than what Butler would give us. Therefore, more money for new trades, etc. And Iggy is barely overpaid in my opinion.
I'm on board for the Caron Butler/ Haywood option. The Rockets would still have some flexibility moving forward. The rumored 76'ers deal is not good enough in my opinion.
Raw players I'd take Iggy/Dalambert because Iggy is a better 2 than Butler. Haywood>Dalembert though no doubts there.
Myopia. You've gotta see the bigger picture.... The Shanghai Rockets. This team still revolves around Yao. I agree. Iggy is a horse and probably has a higher ceiling, but this isn't your fantasy team. Iggy, and dalembert who would probably come with him (unless their is a 3rd team involved, but lets not go there right now for the sake of this post), lock down the team moving forward. Completely. No mobility. You are not giving the Wiz trade enough credit the assets they are: First, lets look at Butler vs. Scola Age: 29 and 29 Butler: Avgs. 16.4 pts, 6.6 rebs, 2.2 apg, 1.4 stls Scola: Avgs 15 pts, 8.8 rebs, 1.8 apg, .3stls, .4 blcks Now would you look at that...! With Scola leaving we don't lose much statistically, if anything at all. We are deep at the PF position. This is where we are going to have to deal from to make a splash. Think Landry and Hayes, it should calm you. So, in the event the trade is: Houston Receives: Caron Butler ($10.5 mil expiring in 2011) Brandon Haywood($6 mil expiring) Mike James($6.4 mil expiring) Washington Receives: Luis Scola ($3.4 mil expiring) TMac ($23.3 mil expiring) This has a lot of future implications -- starting with Yao. It all goes back to the big man. The Rockets will not move away from Yao based purely on a business standpoint. The progression in the NBA's market, more importantly the Rocket's market, in China is unreal and it is because of Yao, not Yi... See T-Mac voting for the all-star game. In fact, I am surprised our players do not get paid in Yen by now. With that said, we need a big man to eat minutes through the stretch of the season to extend Yao's career as long as possible -- its been a long time since we drafted Yao in 2001. Enter Brandon Haywood: Age: 33 Minutes: 33.4 Avg: 9.7 pts, 10.5 rbg, 2.1 bpg You are getting more in this deal than you are acknowledging. Yes, he is 33, but he is playing big minutes, giving lots of boards and blocks, and more importantly his contract is expiring next year. On second thought, don't come at me with the age argument. We had a 43 yr. old Mutumbo backing up Yao when everyone was convinced our big three was taking us to the promise land. + Mike James still coming off the books for $6Mil which allows us flexibility for resigning the other guys. 2011/2012 Lineup before a 2nd move by Morey PG: Brooks / Lowry SG: Ariza / Budinger SF: Butler / Battier PF: Landry / Hayes / Andersen C: Yao / Haywood Now then, go look at the free agent list and adjust it accordingly. Lets say run with Simmon's Battier for J.R. Smith Trade after that just as an example of a second move PG: Brooks / Lowry SG: J.R. Smith / Budinger SF: Butler / Ariza PF: Landry / Hayes / Andersen C: Yao / Haywood Its all about flexibility. With Iggy you lose that and if/when a Championship does not pan out - the Rockets get to play the WTF do we do with this obnoxious contract game!
just because we don't have the free cap money don't mean we can't still be players in this years free agency. Players can get more money by staying with their teams or a sign and trade, and trust me... Cavs or Miami isn't going to give Wade or Lebron away for nothing.. they rather sign and trade.. and why not to a western conference team.. so they don't have to face Lebron or Wade on to the eastern finals, if they have the pieces to make it that far? If it's all about a city and not the pieces around them. then they (Big3) are stupid.. I'll trade anybody other than Brooks and Landry.. Even Yao if i can get wade or Lebron..
I don't really understand how we lose that much flexibility from your example. Caron Butler would take us over the salary cap, I think. (Waiting on Bima's confirmation?) So we would still have to re-sign Lowry AND Haywood with just the MLE. We may have Lowry's bird rights, but I don't think we would have Haywood. You're right, Haywood's a pretty productive center.. meaning I think he may get the full MLE thrown at him by someone. Big men seem to have a tendency to get overpaid. And we could trade Battier for JR Smith in the Iguodala scenario. I don't understand how Dalembert hamstrings that? JR Smith makes less than Battier, so in either scenario we would be cutting cost off our team in doing the deal.
Myopia? Yeah right. Did you not see my post earlier about Yao? Nope. Maybe for this season and next, but Dalembert will be a nice expiring next year. We could package him and Battier and get something. And, we can afford both AND resign Scola/Lowry this offseason (if they aren't traded), depending on how much over the luxury tax Les will go for this year and part of next. So, yes, we have mobility and AREN'T locked down. Yes, we're deep at the PF position, but Butler isn't a PF, so... How does this trade benefit us? We get Caron Butler for this year and next, and basically just trade away Scola for that? Hell no. Don't know who said we would move away from Yao. Didn't you just say he expires this season, therefore won't play with Yao unless we sign him back for next year? Exit Brandon Haywood. Enter Samuel Dalembert: Age: 28 Minutes: 25.9 Avg: 7.4 pts, 9.5 rbs, 2.2 blocks Give me Dalembert for this year and next. He'd be perfect alongside Yao. Not everyone is Mutombo. Don't think that we can just plug in a C in his mid to late 30s and expect him to play like Mutombo, or give us as much production as Mutombo. Or not... With Iggy, we have his one long-term deal. Next year, Dalembert would be coming off the books. His larger expiring means more flexibility. Not to mention other players coming off like Battier. Give me this: McGrady/Lowry/Scola/Dorsey/1st Round Pick 2010 (protected)/cash for Iggy/Dalembert/Speights/Holiday or Williams: Brooks/Holiday or Williams Iggy/Budinger Battier/Ariza Landry/Speights Dalembert/Hayes/Andersen Any day over the lineup you proposed (both of them). My opinion.
Forgot to do this in my first post, but let's do it anyway. Stats for Andre Iguodala compared to Scola and Butler's: Age: 26 Avg: 17.2 pts, 6.8 rbs, 5.7 apg, 1.85 stls, .59 blocks Also, look up the missed games that Butler has had and compare it to Scola and Iggy.
Yes, Butler would put the Rockets over the cap (if only expiring contracts are traded for him). Also, the Rockets WOULD have Bird rights on Haywood this summer. His entire tenure with Washington "transfers" over to Houston with the trade. The Rockets can exceed the salary cap to re-sign Lowry, Haywood, Scola or any other free agents on the roster.
i'm a long time follower of this forum, and have been keeping up for years and it's time for a post. maybe the Houston Rockets are hesistant to add a substantial amount of salary (Iguodala/Dalambert) in any deal because it is rumoured that the league is transitioning to a "hard cap" in the next CBA. So with that line of thinking, a deal for Caron Butler and a stopgap solution at center in Haywood is a lot more palatable. http://sportsillustrated.cnn.com/2010/writers/ian_thomsen/01/29/countdown.trade.deadline/index.html
I'm no capologist, but I would be happier with Yao's 14M,Butler's 10M and Shane's 7-8 M expiring contracts at the end of the 2011 season than getting stuck with Iggy.
I'd be happy with Yao's 14M, Shane's 7-8M, and Dalembert's 12M expiring contracts at the end of the 2011 season and still have a strong player in Iggy for a few more years.
It would leave the Rocketss with $55 mil team salary, where the 2009-10 salary cap is $57.7 mil. They would still be just below the salary cap. You are still right though. The Rockets would only have the MLE.
McGrady for Butler/Haywood seems like a good move. Keeps the team competitive in the short term while not tying it up in the long term. If there isn't a deal that nets a superstar (and I'm now convinced Iggy/Dalembert deal isn't a financially feasible one), then this seems like the right way to go.
