<object width="425" height="344"><param name="movie" value="http://www.youtube.com/v/Z1MBrUMauak&hl=en&fs=1"></param><param name="allowFullScreen" value="true"></param><param name="allowscriptaccess" value="always"></param><embed src="http://www.youtube.com/v/Z1MBrUMauak&hl=en&fs=1" type="application/x-shockwave-flash" allowscriptaccess="always" allowfullscreen="true" width="425" height="344"></embed></object> I posted this video a couple months ago. I would like to hear JLEW's thoughts on it, but I think hes tired of being ignorant and stubborn.
Now that I think about it. He doesn't seem to know much about work and drug testing. He's probably still in school.
People want to cope with life, thats a fact. Life is unpleasant or downright sucks for a great number of people. People will always naturally gravitate towards things that aid in coping. Think of the extreme if the government made EVERYTHING illegal that helps you relax,even simple things such as incense, aromatherapy candles, donuts....would you want to trust some illegal cartel supplying you that instead of the regulated local corner store? Illegal suppliers are already outside the law so its not like they're gonna give a flip about your personal safety or anything. (I dont think the unregulated donut industry will lead to donuts laced with dangerous chemicals in it...) but whats stopping an ILLEGAL often criminal supplier from foul play like that? You gonna try and sue the Mexican cartel? Not worth it when all you want to do is calm down a little. Debate and Discussion should be changed to My Way Or The Highway forum then, I learn you, you cant learn me. Swell.
Using personal experience like you did.....Me and a old buddy of mine went out one night club and bar hopping....Great way to end a crappy week I and really raged out on the alcohol. I didnt think I consumed too much but before I knew it I was sick and feeling to pass out... I handed my car keys to my buddy who was smoking weed THROUGHOUT the day so he could drive us home. He was even smoking in the car on the way up there. Thats the only time I've ever lent my car to anyone and it was to a hardcore stoned guy. He got us home safely ( & slowly), I'da gotten us killed. Isnt that a good example of safer?
No, you are joined by others! I think he may have been grounded by his parents. No computer for you! At any rate, rather than simply provide some links and continue his ranting, the dude has apparently flown from D&D to "greener pastures," like the ESPN message boards, when kids can play and it's OK.
Thanks for posting that. I hadn't seen it before. Straight up common sense from a man whose job it was to enforce the law. It's just bewildering to me that this is still being debated.
I've kind of skimmed through the thread, but I'm wondering about two things.. 1) How do you quantify or measure the effect of legalization/decriminalization in other countries? 2) Even if you regulate it, how will you keep the black market out? I understand that in the netherlands, the black market for prosititution and drugs is thriving. The better value proposition will win. That includes cost, quality and potential risk (penalties). Considering the current drug war's success on eliminating the black market, don't you think the black market would grow stronger while the government is focused on sales? Other than those two things, I think decriminalization has a great case.
Certainly a tough one. Some proponents of legalization/decriminalization argue that it's a losing battle to flush down funds, resources, and prison space on non-violent offenders. They argue that the statistics used to track offenders aren't accurate numbers on our drug war's "success". Consequences and response from decriminalization are definitely hard to predict. It's true that decriminalization doesn't introduce a legal market to compete against the existing underground suppliers, but one would hope the freed resources of imprisoning users from law enforcement would be directed upon the suppliers. Who knows that magic pricing point where legalized pot would snuff out a black market. Booze and tobacco are so cheap that it's everywhere. Not sure if that would be the intended goal. As for the black market, they would probably make their 2nd cheapest product on the ladder even cheaper to make up for the loss. But again, the purpose of decriminalization isn't to starve out the black market, but rather for the government to quit wasting money and sending weed smokers to a progressively more violent and dangerous environment.
I would think you measure it the same way no matter what country you are in. I can't comment on the prostitution issue, but there is a thriving black market for drugs other than mar1juana in Holland. Since you can buy mar1juana at the coffee shops, adults don't have to resort to the black market to acquire it, so there isn't a major black market for pot. The government would not be "focused on sales," and the black market would go away overnight, much like it did after alcohol prohibition ended. Sure, there are still some people who will grow their own pot, much like there are still people who brew beer and make moonshine for their own use, but the vast majority would simply purchase it from a store if they could. Decriminalization, defined as keeping manufacture and sales illegal while removing penalties for use and possession of small amounts, would give us the worst of both worlds. There would still not be regulation of the products, people would have to go to the black market to acquire it, and the drug dealers would continue getting rich while we cede that potential tax revenue to criminal enterprises. What we need is hardcore regulation of the recreational pharmaceutical market.
Also keep in mind that while there is a blackmarket for highly regulated and taxed product such as cigarettes, the overwhelming percentage of cigarettes are bought through those same highly regulated and taxed systems, not the blackmarket. Tobacco farmers are not making blackmarket cigarettes, you're really talking about hijacked shipments broken down and sold. It wouldn't make sense to avoid legalization because it only destroyed 99% of the blackmarket instead of 100%.
0 cases of deaths from mar1juana If it helps the economy, why not? If people hear all the time about drunk driving, why not ban it? What makes Alcohol so much different from Weed? Weed should be legalized, nobody dies from it, you dont get into car crashes as easily or at all because weed makes you more careful (ive experimented it myself, shhhhh.) It will help the economy.
Invisible Fan and GaldiatoRowdy, 1) I agree it's difficult. yes it absolutely has to be measured the same everywhere. But this is not sopmething we can leave to the simple minded consumer and it's also not something we can leave in the hands of large pharmaceuticals or governments. The conflicts of interest are major so serious thought needs to be put into making this kinda of research independent and up to date. I'm mostly interested in what statistics you would track and whether or not they are "clean". I.E., isolating mar1juana offenses, behavior and (the MOST difficult one) the price/quantity/quality of mar1juana in the market (black or legal). There are also mattets such as, will people become less productive members of society because of mar1juana? Probably not, but it is important to demonstrate this clearly. 2) As I understood from your posts, there will be a lot of "guesstimates" regarding how the black market will be affected. I'm not convinced that the black market can't produce at better cost and quality than before because the drug war has done ALL it can to stop them. It seems to me that to achieve legalization, you have to keep spending the same amount, making the penalties exponentially larger and spend a bit more on regulating (the cost of which will be covered by taxes on it hopefully). To me it seems like this will be more costly. There's also another problem I just thought of. You can't know if mar1juana is black market or not. There's no label. It's not like pirated CD's or clothes. It's a plant. Lots of money will have to go into tracking mar1juana sold/bought right? Sorry, I may be all over the place with this, I just don't know all that much about it and it does concern me that there hasn't been a succesful initiative in legalizing it thus far. I also discussed this with a friend this morning, and the coffee shops are supposedly only attractive for tourists now a days. Everyone still wants a delivery guy and the best quality and whoever has it will win. Is that true?
