Elite, 6th man, sure. A couple of notches above Vinnie "the Microwave" Johnson. Easily a top 5 6th man of all time... Arguably the second best swing, sixth man of all time. Hondo obviously being the gold standard.
6th man or not in my opinion Manu was the best player on the Spurs for at least one, if not two seasons. I don't think he should retire, he's too much of a competitor and can still give a team something positive, he just needs to learn to take it easy during the offseason.
Unless you're counting the one year Duncan was hobbled with injury, or unless you don't give a **** about defense, I can not agree with you.
Manu Ginobili is absolutely an elite player in those minutes when he's on the court by all objective measurements. Career PER of 21.6 (with a couple seasons above 24), winshare/48 minutes of .211 (3 seasons above .240), career TS% of .589 with 115 ORtg and a 25% usage rate (high of 28.7%) and spent most of his career with less than 50% of his shots being assisted, so he's not just spotting up and living off of easy shots created by the teammates. Now, none of these numbers is, by itself, an be-all-end-all measurement of NBA success, but when a guy is so good as measured by so many different statistics, the chances that they all over-estimate a guy's importance is fairly slim. Consider this: Has James Harden been an elite player over the last 2 years? I would say so. And Ginobili's numbers stack up against Harden's very well. Now, one can knock him for not playing 35-40 mpg like most other elite players do, but that's a matter of the Spurs often conserving minutes under Popovich and saving it for the playoffs and when Manu's on the court, the guy has absolutely killed it.
I have always really liked him as a person and as a player. He plays with passion and skill. Maybe a bit more passion, but he has been successful in the best basketball league in the world. Gave his fans one last thrill or has he?
Manu was definitely an elite player and under-the-radar superstar in his career. Those who don't believe so probably go only off statistics, his label as a 6th man, or have only watched him in his recent aged seasons. In his career both internationally and in the NBA, he has shown determination, will, and follow-through to generate a win for his team to a degree that even Kobe Bryant would be envious of. There is no other player that I can think of that is more deserving of being labeled a "winner." Now fear his sausage.
Elite and Winner aren't the same thing. I'm pretty sure a number of people that consider him to be a VERY GOOD NBA player and an EXCELLENT international player but not an ELITE NBA player, also got to see him play internationally for club and country as well as in his early seasons with the Spurs. We might have to open up a new thread to find out what constitutes "Elite" in the minds of most people.
Do Manu Ginobli fans get offended if Pop benches him or doesn't let him play significant 4th quarter minutes? seems in the Popovich system, you have to prove yourself to get some playing time
The defining essence of "elite" is that of status, basically, being the best at one's position. I'm not sure how anyone can say that Ginobli was ever arguably best swing man in his career. Ginobli played in an era with the likes of McGrady, Kobe, Wade, and Lebron, having taken mantle from Jordan. And for a short time, Brandon Roy. You can make an argument as Ginobli being the third best at his position, perhaps in 2011 when Brandon Roy retired. But there was a huge drop off after Kobe and Wade.
Popovich didnt bring him off the bench because he wasnt capable but to have a good player to lead the bench. Harden wasnt a bench player yet he came off the bench in OKC.
Pop made one crucial mistake this game. Too sentimental, should've had more Green, less Gino. New name for Ginobili = Turnobili
