It's unfortunate this gets turned into a racial issue when I have strong doubts that it can be shown it was. Neely didn't attack anyone. He didn't punch, strike, or show any weapon. In NYC, nearly everyone at some point encounters someone a bit unhinged on the street or the subway. You avoid them. At this point, Neely hadn't committed a crime. He didn't threaten any on individual and didn't even throw a punch. No one tried to de-escalate. I don't think it was justified to take action against someone just because they are clearly unhinged. Take out race, politics, and whatever past either of these men had - and it comes down to whether or not you believe that it's ok to pre-emptively take out someone who is behaving erratically and in a scary manner but has not yet committed a crime. At the same time, I am sure Penny was asking with the right intentions, and had no intention to kill Neely. But he had to know that it was a possibility, and he made no effort to de-escalate, and there was no eminent act of violence he was preventing. Laws exist for a reason, and the only person who broke the law here is Penny. He should have waited / de-escalated, or simply called the police. I think he did commit a crime, albeit he was not intending harm, his actions were negligent. The greater injustice though was that Neely was on the streets at all. Not just because of his past crimes, but because of his mental health. It's a broken system where the mentally disturbed are left to roam cities homeless.
Of course And I thought Jeremy Lin ended the debate race makes you a good point guard for the rockets @Os Trigonum @Salvy
Woke people want this young man in jail so that no one will ever step in and stop a crime.... They love crime....
Woke people love crime It’s not a coincidence they side with drug dealers, rapists and jihadis @AroundTheWorld
Somehow missed this thread originally. I've been on a subway train with a deranged person before. Multiple times. It was tense and uncomfortable, to say the least. But nobody took the violence route. When the train hit the next station, we all de-boarded and got on a different train car. Some sought out a Metro PD officer or train station manager. We weren't there for this incident, so we have no idea what happened, but according to eye witnesses it doesn't sound like Neely actually laid a hand on anyone. To that end, it would seem Penny ****ed up. You can distract or diffuse the situation, but unless Neely was actually harming anyone, putting his hands on him, especially a chokehold, was a bridge too far. The 15 minute timeframe is also quite damning. After the train is cleared of bystanders, you have to let go. No doubt that there are bad actors on the prosecutorial side, and some of the protestors are dumber than dirt and horribly racist, but based on the facts on the ground I think Penny needs to get some kind of criminal conviction here.
This is why I don’t think stuff like this is good for society. If it’s justified to to kill a mentally unhinged man on the subway who was harassing people. Why not kill a CEO who is profiting off of denying coverage to people for medical care.
I’ve been in situations in public transit both in the US and other countries dealing with people drunk and / or mentally unstable harassing people including myself. I’ve yet to have to use violence to injure them other than taking ones arm from around me. While these situations have been very uncomfortable have never felt they rose to the level of threat that required violent force. Knowing the self defense laws though I’m very aware of how use of force given my training needs to be very careful. Will also add any of those situations are not the exactly the same as Penny’s situation and from what I’ve seen I think there is reasonable doubt how long he had Neely on the hold and if he knew he was killing him.
Verbally threatening someone’s life is a crime. If you do it while you are aggressively all up in someone’s personal space, you can definitely be charged with a crime.
Got it, so if anyone acts in a way one deems menacing, they have the right to put them in a choke hold and kill them.
If anyone in the state of New York, by physical menace, intentionally places or attempts to place another person in fear of death, imminent serious physical injury or physical injury, they have committed a misdemeanor (absent defenses).
NY doesn't have a stand your ground law. Putting a guy in a chokehold for 6 minutes and killing him isn't the same there as in some other states. Right now it's not manslaughter but still could be negligent homicide.
