I don't recall me ever saying that sales (which I've done) wasn't hard. I was merely shooting down your ridiculous assertion that all servers ever do is carry a few extra plates. If you want restaurant owners to pay what the servers deserve rather than tips, you're going to be mighty pissed off at the influx of waiters who stop giving a **** and the much higher costs of food. It's hilarious that people get their cheap panties in a wad over what's really not that much money. 15% on a $30 check is a mind-blowing, wallet-busting, can never send my kids to college $4.50.
MFW: You silly, silly man. Fine. Let's compare waiting to shoe sales. You "wait" on potential customers. You go in the back and retrieve shoes and bring them out. Afterwards, you hope you get paid for your efforts. Your "tip" is your commission if he buys. But he has every right to "stiff" you and walk out, and have all that effort you just did garner nothing. That's the biz. Don't like it, get out. Your analogy, however, is that The owner should pay commissioned salesmen for all of the effort, regardless of whether we did a good job, or not. And I guarantee you, you hated the people that you waited on hand and foot, getting shoe after shoe for them, only for them to stiff you, and leave without getting anything. That's the same thing for people who "stiff" waiter's by not tipping them after they've received all the service.
I don't complain if people don't buy after trying everything. That is a fact of life. I swear to god there are actually people who actually go to store just to try on shoes, in one essence because they have nothing better to do. And if you want to use the "wait" analogy, I have no problem with that. My problem is that some people have a sense of entitlement and they DESERVE the tip, regardless of service. Let's look at the article. The guy is an absolute jackass. However, if he feels the service was subpar, I have no problems that he leaves less tip to display his displeasure. I mean, it's not as if he DIDN'T tip in the first place. Yet he got arrested for it. I think most people are reasonable. Hey, having to work my ass off, I know what it is like to make a living. So I don't think most people go out of their way to screw a waiter (at least not from a financial sense). They should leave what they can AND proportional to the level of service they provided. Now the bottom line of the issue is still, the customers aren't the ones being cheap. The owners are.
I don't claim that you have made any claims at all and I don't think waiters just carry plates. What my point is, there are plenty of people who work just as hard and many more who work harder. I'm having problems understanding what you are saying. You are saying I would have problems if the owners increase the price of food by 15% but I wouldn't have problems if I'm expected to pay 15% tips? What's the difference? A 15% increase is a 15% increase is a 15% increase. And watch what you say before calling me a cheap panty because I've never paid under 20% in tips. Guess what, you can't afford to send your kids to school on 7 bucks an hr in sales either, hence you work your ass off for commission. Don't imply that only waiters have this problem as if it's the truth.
MFW: Use this from now on. This is why we "tip" in America. Average Service=15% Sub-par service=10% Exceptional service=20% This is basically the way it works. It works for the consumer because he gets to dictate how good his meal/service/overall experience was. If management dictated this through raising prices on the menu, what incentive would the waiter have to do an exceptional job?
No, the fear of getting fired would keep them from doing a sub-par job. Average would be what you got. Exceptional service would be unnecessary.
jay.. thanks. I usually do end up tipping heck quite a bit more than 15%. I was just trying to make the point that, the reason it ends up being more than 15% is because I like to give them money based on their service and now so much the price of the meal. If I buy a 10 dollar meal, they still had to deal with me for half an hour so they deserve more than a measly $1.50. On the otherhand, if at that same restaurant I had ordered a 30 dollar plate, they'd have been doing the same exact amount of work for me, but be getting three times the tip. I tip accordingly, which includes over tipping if it's a real cheap meal because they deserve a few bucks at least. As well as sometimes tipping more if the restaurant is obvoiusly slow and they don't have many other tables to get tipped off of.
So why not just raise the prices then and give them the increase? Sub-par job (constantly) --> no tip, fired Average job --> no tip, but still getting their fair share, and it is guaranteed, in contrast to "voluntary" tips Exceptional job --> still guaranteed money, and upward potential because customers could/would still tip in addition to the guaranteed money if it was an exceptional job. Nobody would be coerced into anything, and everyone would get a fair deal - or would anything be unfair about that?
fattyfat.. that would answer my question except that I'm talking about as the SAME restaurant.. I'm not trying to compare an expensive restaurant to a cheap one.. I'm meaning if I go to eh Chilis and order a cheap meal or more expensive meal.. t hey are doing the same amount of work.. and it's not like I'm getting the better server for ordering more expensive.. that was my point..
Can we put this thread to rest with an Office Space quote? "..my only real motivation is not to be hassled, that and the fear of losing my job. But you know, Bob, that will only make someone work just hard enough not to get fired."
Hmm...I think I just had an idea...couldn't one open a restaurant and have a "NO TIPS" policy, and only show the end price incl. tax, and use that for PR? With the employees getting a very good fixed salary? Would probably at least generate some attention.
I think you're overestimating the number of cheap bastards out there that would go to a place just so they wouldn't have to tip. I really don't think this is the crisis people are making it out to be.
The only reason this is an issue is that there are people out there who take advantage of the tipping system. ie. they wear the servers out by asking for extra bread, and hot sauce, and refills, and napkins, etc., and then they'll leave and put down a 5% tip, if that, when they knew damn well they were supposed to put down 15%!
Maybe the problem is that people are expecting different things out of their servers. Maybe some of you are working your servers so much that you think they deserve to make 15-20 bucks an hour. I don't care if the waiter is chatty with me, helps his fellow servers, refills my drink without me asking, asks how everything is 25 times during my meal, and tries to upsell me so he can get more money. All I want is for my order to be taken, my food delivered, and my transaction completed, all in a timely fashion. For that I don't think 6 bucks an hour is outrageous. Instead, the wait staff is allowed to hold us hostage. If we don't give an "acceptable" tip, then the next time we are in, they will tamper with our food, screw up our order, cause unneccessary delays, etc. Oh, and Pimp, I am unemployed right now by choice. I have held several jobs in my life, some good and some crappy. I have done work that is interesting, mind-numbingly boring, hard, easy, physically intensive, requiring no more effort than posting here, and many things in between. I have gotten crappy salaries and I have been paid way more then I felt I was earning. I choose not to work right now and I have enough money to make that decision. I don't feel the need to go be a waiter at Chili's. I highly doubt I would have any problem getting hired there. It is fine that you disagree with my position. Having been a waiter, I am sure you sympathize with them. However, I don't think my position is any stupider than yours. I guess we will just have to agree to disagree.
I do this too. Invest $5 tip on the first two beers, then adjust the tip accordingly on the CC. In most cases (only once or twice has this not helped), I end up tipping over 20% anyway, but thats cause I am only waiting a few minutes for drinks. Of course I am a former bartender and waiter so I know the drill. Oh, and whoever said large groups of people always overtips is living in fantasyland. Usually you have one or two guys that forget the tax or something and the nice guys have to pull extra cash outta their pocket just to make a tip appear.
Not saying it's a crisis - also, I don't think this would only catch cheap bastards' attention - and this would be the only reason to do something like that, to get attention somehow. There aren't all that many ways to differentiate yourself from comparable restaurants...maybe that could be one?
Pretty simple. The habit of tipping is not going to go away in America. Raise the price by say 15%, most customers would still tip, although in a lower range. This is why there are customers tipping well over 20%. Here's how it works, good service, tip say 5%; lousy service, no tip. No if or buts about it. Waiter gets paid. If he/she feels like they want more, then serve better and customers can reward whoever they like. Besides, same argument goes both ways. With an "expected" 15% tip, what incentives are there to serve better?
