I have a question about these 'mandatory' gratuity policies. What if the service is dirt poor? I understand that when someone opens the menu and reads the 18% policy for large groups and then goes ahead and places an order w/ the waitstaff, that an understood contractual agreement has been entered into. And this is fine by me. But what if the service delivered for that agreed price or percentage is not up to par? If the customer feels that only 10% of even 8% is appropriate for the service provided, then should he be arrested? The restaurant has in effect already breached the contractual agreement by not living up to their end, so why should the customer live up to his? And as a couple of other poster here noted, I find that the service provided to large groups is often quite poor and unattentive. If anything, restaurants should lower their gratuity rate for large parties b/c typically they provide a lower ratio of waitstaff per customer in such cases anyway.
Any restaurant manager will tell you they tack on the gratuity on large parties as a suggestion. As a consumer, you have every right to object to it. There is no legal obligation to pay a mandatory tip. But you're a complete ass if you don't.
I've never seen a problem, from either POV (and I've seen it from both), when someone feels that the server did not earn the 18% (or whatever the "mandatory" gratuity was). Every single time, the manager has taken it off the bill. You obviously have never waited tables. It's extremely difficult to keep a big table happy. It's your job to have 8 drinks come out at the same time and to keep them all refilled. It's your job to make sure that the appetizers come out at the same time as well as the salads. Then, it's your job to make sure that everyone gets their entrees at the same time while ensuring that everything is exactly how the patron wants it. That takes a lot of work for one table, all while working on other tables as well. Not to mention that a big group can take over your table for a good part of your shift, taking away more opportunities to make tips.
I know the beginning of the thread is already a few pages ago, but the restaurant said it to the guy that was arrested, which is what I was referring to. And several posters seemed to agree with that interpretation, since they welcomed the arrest.
Oh I don't doubt that it is a tough task to keep a large group happy. That's why I fault restaurant management when they poorly alocate waitstaff to large groups and then the service invariably turns out sub par. IMO, a group of 8+ is just too much for 1 waiter to handle by himself. But at the same time, even though I will go ahead and honor the 18% gratuity policy I don't necessarily think it's a fair transaction from my POV!
Random Contribution: Is there anything more annoying than the waiter who takes you're entire order without writing anything down and then proceeds to screw up?
Well this line of thinking does apply if you are talking about a restaurant in your area/neighborhood. But often as a tourist or away on business w/ a large group, this kind of poor service will be given. In those instances, as a matter of principle why should the customer own up to his end of the 'contractual agreement'?
Ugh. If the service was piss-poor, you have a right to tip accordingly. Maybe 7% if the service was gawd-awful. That is not what people have been arguing.
Well TheFreak just said "pay the full price" anyway, so there is obviously some discrepancy here of how to handle such a situation
Fair enough....but then what if the manager disagrees and likewise the customer still feels he should not be held to the '18% contractual agreement'? Should the customer go ahead and pay the full expected amount and then later sue the restaurant for breach of contract....or should the customer not pay the full expected amount and then risk getting arrested?
1. Commission is ALWAYS paid by the company/firm. It is NEVER paid by the customer. Imagine if you buy a car, pay the taxes on top and the dealer chases after you and tells you to pay the saleperson's 10%. 2. Sales involves A LOT MORE extra work than waiting tables. Sure, waiting tables you might have to bring out several extra plates but that's pretty much it. You DON'T have to convince somebody to spend $200 bucks on dinner because if they don't want to, they won't no matter what you can say. In sales, a jump from $15 to $200 is a HUGE deal and it DOES depend on the salesperson's ability. You ARE doing more work if you convince somebody to pay the every 185 bucks which is why MOST merchandizing companies DON'T average 200 bucks a sale. 3. Same argument works both ways. If I don't want to tip I can go to Subway, if you (as a waiter) wants mandatory tip, why don't you get another job?
So am I basically expected to pay 15% no matter how bad the service is? Then how is that different than a price in the first place, since I'm "expected" to it regardless. It is also hard not to call tips "mandatory" when the jackass in the article, cheap SOB or not, got arrested. The bottom line is, even though I've nver tipped under 20%, tips was designed to reward good service. So I find it perfectly understandable if people don't feel obligated to tip if they receive rude/bad service. As I've said, tips are MY discretion, not that of the waiter/waitress.
OK, I couldn't stay away. One last comment.....MFW, you are dead wrong. Waiting tables IS sales. It involves much more work than the sales jobs you are talking of. If you don't believe that, you are simply ignorant regarding what the job of a waiter is. Some waiters may not give 2 ****s about selling or their guests and they usually are weeded out and end up at places like Denny's where all they do is take orders and deliver food or out of the restaurant business totally. Good servers upsell food and drinks to increase the tab and hopefully the tip. Commissioned sales people are at least guaranteed a commission on their sales while servers need to impress from start to finish, then hope they are compensated accordingly. Sorry man, but you are way off.
There is a HUGE difference. Commission is ALREADY included in the price. The customer is NOT expected to pay more than that price because as far as the company is concerned, the customer already paid their fair share. This is a huge contract to the cheap restaurant owners and whiney waiters. Aside from the fact that the company pays the commision, regardless of whether a sale is $2 or $200 the customer pays the set price and gets the sale level of the service. Because when a customer walks into the store, as a salesperson you DON'T know how much he/she is going to buy (stereotypes DO exist but is not as widespread). The salesperson has an incentive to provide better service if because if he makes the customer happy, he might make more. Not to mention that as a salesperson, your commission is in direct relation with your PERFORMANCE. Higher commisision = better performance = usually harder work. If you say to your boss I expect 15% commission regardless of performance (like waiters do), good luck, he'll fire your ass.
But you only get that money if you convince the customer to buy something. The company/firm is not going to pay you if you don't. It's the same principle as getting tips on service at a restaurant. You've obviously never waited tables. Every server has duties other than taking out a few extra plates. Aside from all the duties you as a customer see-refilling drinks, bringing salads, appetizers, entrees, deserts, whatever condiments you may need-servers are also helping other servers out by carrying food, they help bus tables, help refill drinks, among other support duties. Servers are also many times responsible for various duties in the kitchen as well, which takes up a lot of time. I think you underestimate the selling that waiters do. I think it's very subtle, but they do some selling. Of course, it is easier than most sales jobs, but most servers on average probably don't make as much as most salespersons. You're exactly right, except that I can guarantee you that most servers don't advocate mandatory tips. For one thing, you're capping yourself at 18%. Most times, people don't add an extra tip on there. I can see the problem that some people have with mandatory tips. However, I'm speaking more in terms of the total misunderstanding that some have here of what a server does to earn their 15% a table. If you don't want to pay that 15% for normal service, it's you who needs to go to Subway. You're the one who's violating the accepted social mores when it comes to tipping etiquette at restaurants, not the servers.
1. How much can you eat? Let's say person A can eat like a pig and eats 2 burgers, 3 hotdogs, 3 beers, the amount of money on top of what the average person would eat is chump change compared to sales. 2. Good services does make a difference (as all the chump change adds up) and good waiters (in which there are many) should be rewarded accordingly. But that reward comes from the owners/management, not the customers, as is the case with basically every single industry. 3. Statistics show salesperson earn on average (by mean, median or mode), MUCH less than waiters on equal # of hrs of work. And even you have to admit they work much harder too. No one is putting a gun to your head and says that you have to work in a particular restaurant (or even as a waiter). Don't like how much you get paid, go to another restaurant where you get more tip whereas in sales, similar level of positions get paid pretty much the same industry wide. If you move from restaurant A to restaurant B (same income level locations), you'll probably get similar levels of commissions. You move from store A to store B, you get paid A LOT LESS, because you are now considered entry evel in a company where you might be a senior level in the previous company. 4. If your commission amount is very low, that means your sales is very low. Companies evaluate you on that. If it's basically stated that your commission is 15% like a waiter, what's the point of working harder? 5. Believe it or not, I actually sympathize with waiters and think they ARE being treated unfairly. However, you take that up with your owners/the government. They are the ones cheating you of your pay, not the customers. The customers went to restaurants for the food, not to pay your bills.
1. I've already address the level of sales in a restaurant in another post. Basically, the amount a customer purchases in a restaurant because of the waiters is NOT what accountants would call a material amount, where the sales influenced by salesperson IS material. I believe certain less honest companies even include this in their goodwill (note: accounting term) as a result of it even though it shouldn't be. 2. You've obviously never done sales, because if you have, you'd know waiters don't have much to complain about. Long time ago I worked in sales and every week there would be an inventory count. We are talking 300,000+ pair of shoes counted by size, style number, price range, etc and then recounted. When you sell a pair of shoes, if it is on the top shelf, you climb as high as 8 feet above the floor on a creaky ladder, then grab it. If the customer rejects it, you put it back in the same place. If you need more than 3 pairs, you carry them under your armpit, because time is money and you REALLY REALLY don't want to climb the creaky ladder again. If you are opening or closing you are staying up to an extra hr or so of which (in most companies) you aren't paid for. Every other week you have stock management, you go through the store, up and down, anything that isn't in order, you sort it out. All 300,000+ pairs. If something is missing, you find it, because the store doesn't want to take a write-off and in part you are held directly responsible. If a shoe is written off and is found and you are one of the persons who did the count, guess what, they got your name in a book. If you don't sell a lot you are in sh*t; if you sell a lot but average low sales amount per sale, you are in sh*t; if you sell a lot, average high in amount per sale but don't sell a lot of accessories you are in ****. Every bit of info about your performance is evaluated. No raise for you if don't do well. Hell, forget about raises, if you don't do well they'll cut your hrs until you quit, or fire you. 3. I do understand there is sales in waitering, but as I've addressed already, it is not considered a material amount, at least not by accountants. 4. The way I look at it, you are screwed by the system, not the customers. Waiters SHOULD be paid what they deserve, but by the owners. The customers came for the food, that is what they should pay for. The owners want the customers' money, so they need to provide service by employing you, that is what they should pay for.
