Malcolm X

100% agree with the points that CreepyFloyd makes.

 

As far as impact regarding the civil rights movement and getting things done, there was nothing more effective than King's protestors going out there in a non-violent fashion, and exposing the white hatred and violence for what it was.

The thing that moved the majority of the folks, including those in Washington DC who began enacting legislation was seeing peaceful demonstrators attacked by police dogs, fire hoses, and getting beat, while doing nothing violent on their own.

It was those powerful images that sparked Kennedy and others in DC(of course LBJ had been fighting for civil rights for a long time, but that is neither here nor there.) to act, and that is ultimately what had the most effect.

I honestly don't know why we need to debate who was better, or liked more. They were fighters on the same side of the struggle. We don't have to compare them, and choose one as better. We can celebrate each for what they were. It isn't like there is only room for one black hero in the civil rights movement.

The Autobiography of Malcolm X written with Alex Haley is fantastic reading. The movie by Spike Lee was great as well, but he added things in the movie that weren't in the book, that didn't need to be in there.

There is no reason to justify why Malcolm X was better than MLK, or why MLK was better than Malcolm X. They were on the same side in the struggle, and both should be appreciated for their contributions.

MLK had the inspiration to show the white hatred and violence for exactly what it was, with his non-violence technique. Malcolm X delivered a powerful message of self respect, and personal realiability in his community. Malcolm also showed the hypocrisy and double standard in regards to many of the laws that were on the books, and the way they were enforced.

They each made huge contributions, and to sit here and argue that one meant more than the other, or was more important, or better, is a disservice to the whole movement, IMHO. The Civil rights movement is far stronger united and appreciating both men, than divided into sub groups each putting down, or attempting to trivialize the acheivements of the other.

 

Not to disparage your post but other civil rights leaders including MLK also tied the civil rights struggle in the US to other international liberation struggles. MLK even went so far as to liken the civil rights struggle to what was going on in Vietnam.

MLK's almost universal appeal have caused many people to forget how radical many of his views were. If MLK had lived I doubt he would be as widely praised as he is now as many of those who sing his praises now would've been turned off by his stances against the military, advocation of capital redistribution, support of labor, being against the death penalty and very likely would've been involved in hot button social issues like being against abortion and for keeping Terry Schiavo alive.

 

Great post.

 

No doubt Malcolm X was more renowned in the 'Third World' than MLK was, but both combined have nothing on Muhammad Ali.

 

Good post, 100% agree.

I guess my only question here is as to why Malcolm X is not more celebrated in today's America?

 

So come back, Emma Goldman
Rise up, old Joe Hill
The barracades are goin up, and
They cannot break our will
So come back to us, Malcolm X
And Martin Luther King
We're marching into selma
As the bells of freedom ring!

sounds like my man dubya...just substitue Fallujah for Selma...

 

Malcolm's message was/is more dangerous to status Quo

MLK's message was more easily corrupted into the bastardization that you have today.

Rocket River

 

Malcom X may have met with more international figures and was more well-traveled than MLK, but what real affect did he have on anything overseas? Africa is still a royal pathetic mess that makes me want to cry. I lived in Sierra Leone for a year (1985, and well before the war) and my eyes got opened to things I didn't really want to see or know about Africa. It's MUCH WORSE over there than the mainsteam media portrays. They don't report on it much because most people don't care about Africa except when genocide or some plain as day atrocities are involved.

Please understand I'm not knocking Malcolm X. But when you mentioned Africa you hit one of my raw nerves. If you ask me, if Malcolm X had never lived Africa would be no worse off today. On the other hand, MLK stayed at home and got things done in the USA that benefit us today.

Rhetoric is great but it should be measured by results. As one man said, "He that leadeth and no one followeth just takes a walk." MLK lead a mass movement that radically changed our country. He caused other people to risk their lives and livelihoods to join him. He exposed a gaping wound this country had to the entire world and forced political leaders to do something about it. Malcolm X said a lot of good and true things. I would also say his character is equal to MLKs. But if you measure greatness by longstanding tangible results, it's not even close IMO. Me saying this DOES NOT diminish Malcolm X.

That all said, it would have been interesting if Malcolm X had lived longer. I think he was killed before he reached his peak, which is very very sad. There is no way to know what he could have accomplished. On the other hand, MLK was killed when his influence was declining. A cold-blooded fact is when it comes to creating a larger than life legacy, he was killed at just the right time. But maybe Malcolm X was also. We will never know for sure but, tigermission1, I think Malcolm X's best was yet to come.

Rocket River, I don't understand your last post. Can you explain, please?

 

I understand your point, but I disagree with the idea that just because Malcolm X was traveling overseas at times, he somehow wasn't dedicated enough to 'home issues', because that WAS his primary focus, he just traveled abroad to acquaint himself with other cultures and attempt to garner support overseas for his movement.

However, I do agree with you that Malcolm's best was "yet to come", which is difficult to grasp given how great a legacy he already established and how revered he's by those whom have either come in contact with him or have studied him. I have NEVER come across anyone who read about Malcolm and wasn't captured by him, he just has that effect on people who've never seen him or heard him talk in person...imagine how those who lived with him or around him and actually saw him must've felt...his impact was FAR greater than I think you give him credit for.

Furthermore, as Sishir has stated earlier and we're in agreement on this, I think Malcolm's legacy is what has triumphed somewhat in the Black community today, we're seeing Black Americans trying to more and more distinguish themselves from the White majority, although Malcolm certainly would've been upset with more than a few things if he was alive today.

Having said all that, I am of the opinion that MLK's message was more appropriate for his time, while Malcolm X's message was ahead of its time; I think Malcolm's message would've been ironically more suited for today's America, I think he would've been a great role model for the Black youths to affect change within their own communities.

 

To clarify, I don't blame Malcolm X for traveling and did not say or mean that he wasn't dedicated enough to home issues. I just meant that his legacy in Africa is a memory; only a memory.

You state this well:

 

The fight against Seperate but Equal
was more about the Equal not being Equal
was morph in to a fight about integration

It was more important for black people to get Equal access and resources
[which they do not have still]
but
it was pulled to just no longer being seperated.

Now we integrated .. . still unequal and IMO probably in a worse state than
before the great integration.

Equal resources would have definately uprooted status quo
self reliance would have upset status Quo

Rocket River

 

What’s missing here is that they both had to die before things changed in the great ol'e US of A. Without sacrifice there is no change... They gave their lives believing in a cause that was above them. One that would help millions of people. Thats the reason why they are great men, deserving of whatever praise that we give them...

 

I have to give you credit... you have this uncanny ability to post material I disagree with. And I disagree. It is a coincidence. Black Americans had everything they could handle trying to gain their rights in this country. I remember all too well the "Whites Only" signs on the restrooms, and Blacks riding in the back of the bus. That was only an example of the obvious discrimination they faced. Do you seriously believe Black Americans spent a lot of time coordinating their struggle to gain their rights with the Africans fighting for freedom from colonial rule? From Apartheid? The overwhelming majority were trying to keep food on the table, a roof over their heads, and hopefully a better education for their children then they had had for themselves. In the '60's, with leadership from people like Dr. King and Malcolm X, along with countless unsung heroes, they finally made progress. They became fed up and took to the streets. There were people in the White House and Congress who were finally able to get something pushed through, and civil rights legislation was passed, beginning the death-kneel of Democratic power in the South, with no regrets from Democrats like me. It was worth it.

There may have been a romantic fascination with things African, and an attempt to regain a lost heritage by some, but little coordination at all. In my opinion.



Keep D&D Civil.

 

Much clearer. Thanks.



Keep D&D Civil.

 

I agree with you here, CF, the independence struggles in Africa definitely caught the attention of American civil rights leaders, and Malcolm X was very much aware of that fact.