"Making your teammates better" vs "Scoring more points"...?

Lol what the...I don't even...

Your "method" counts 3s the same as 2s, that MIGHT affect things just a bit considering KMart is one of the most prolific 3pt shooters in the NBA.

 

Martin used 23 possessions to score 23 points, plus 4 points from his assists(let's assume they are 2 point baskets to simplify). So 27 points in 23 possessions.

Mcgrady scored 25 points on 34 possessions(fga was actually 21), plus the 13 points from his assists. So 38 points in 34 possessions.

That leaves 11 extra possessions that were "freed up" for the team Martin was on.

This years Rockets team MINUS Martin shoot 70fga, 18fta, and 11tos per game, scoring 83 points. That is 83 points on 90 possessions, for 0.92 points per possession.

That means they are projected to score an additional 10.1 points on those 11 possessions.

So for a comparable 34 possessions on Martin's team, they would score 37.1 points vs 38 points for Mcgrady's team.

The point of the OP is that the eyes can plainly see how a "Mcgrady" can affect the game through his creating for himself and his teammates. Meanwhile, a "Martin" scored efficiently using less possessions, indirectly freeing up those possessions(11) for his teammates to use. The end result of points generated by the team may be much closer than the casual fan would assume at first glance.

 

please read carefully. i am talking about how many shots. and the whole topic is on # of shots he save up for other players.

 

Dude. Uh.. just stick to what I said. And don't think too hard.

 

yep, I agree. I wrote a thread about this a while back. It was titled something like points per possession. I can't search so no link. But I also factored in possessions created by steals, blocked shots, offensive rebounds, etc.

 

The only problem with that logic is what if the player that is creating the efficient shots for teammates is also taking a high volume of inefficient shots himself? He might be making the team's offense on the whole worse by taking away shots from teammates who are capable of creating decent shots for themselves within a motion offense lets say.

I agree that if you have completely inept offensive players who can't do anything but shoot open jumpers and layups then a guy who is an inefficient volume shooter who can also create might be good (2006 Rockets for example).

However, I would argue that this is not usually the case. It is usually better to be efficient yourself and share the ball with your teammates, allowing them to create for themselves and others sometimes. Pounding the ball into the court makes others lazy and appear to be offensively inept.

 

Yeah except KMart's shots matter more than everyone else's, lol. If you can't see why, then take CX's advice and dont think too hard.

There's a reason this team is the best offensive Rockets team most of us have seen in our lifetime.

 

we are discussing high efficiency scoring vs making other players better. unfortunately, you limited yourself to kevin vs tmac comparision.

 

you start to expand the discussion to somewhere else. you look more and more worse than i thought. come back to talk when kevin takes this team to playoff. otherwise, any high efficient offense is meaningless.

 

I never said tmac or kevin. You are projecting.

 

Actually, that is NOT what we are discussing. The topic of the thread is the hidden benefits of an efficient scorer. Unfortunately due to a lack of reading comprehension the thread has degenerated into a scorer vs playmaker debate.

 

you use tmac as example as he got his pts by threw tons of shots to take away other players' chances.

we are discussing hypothetic things.

if surrounding kevin with ryan bowen..., no matter how many shots he saved for him, it doesn't matter. if you can draw all defenders so ryan bowen had a open path to basket and get a dunk, you make your teammates look better.

 

I'm not "expanding" the discussion anywhere. Im trying to help you accept the fact that TS% is an almost perfect measure of efficiency, instead of coming up with your own sophomoric metric that counts 3s the same as 2s, lol.

 

then you have to ask OP to change his post title.

 

Actually, you're right. My apologies.

But the answer to the question is not playmaker > scorer or scorer > playmaker. There are many different factors, primarily the makeup of the team, and each could be better in different situations.

The hidden benefits of an efficient scorer was A point of the OP, not THE point. Sorry.

 

i didn't realize we have math PHD. Thanks so much.

 

i have to go to lunch. talk to you later.

 

ttyl l8tr g8tr

 

You don't need a math PHD to realize that 3 ≠ 2...

 

It’s amazing that many of the same people killing our SHOOTING guard for shooting the ball (and scoring at an amazing efficiency rate) are also guys who made/make excuses for our (former) point guard (you know, the position where your job IS to make other players better) who also didn’t make anyone else on the team better (while scoring with poor efficiency). Understand that different positions have different roles and responsibilities in basketball. Perhaps next we should criticize Lowry for not blocking enough shots or maybe torch Chuck Hayes because he doesn’t shoot the three ball well.

Also, let’s cut the Reggie Miller, Carmelo Anthony and Tracy McGrady comparisons to Martin. That seems to be the thing on this forum. Compare Martin to guys who are/were on another level (and who make twice the money) and then tear him down for not being as good as those guys.

It’s like you can’t be good on this team and get any credit around here. If you’re a scrub you get a bunch of love for your “upside” or whatever but if you are actually good at what it is you are supposed to do (score the hell out of the ball like Martin does) you get trashed for not being a superstar.