Making a case for Shareef,again.

JH did well in tha last few months.

Jan 29.1 min, 5.6 rebs, 9.9 ppg
Feb 32.7 min, 8.6 rebs, 12.7 ppg
Mar 32.0 min, 7.0 rebs, 11.0 ppg

http://sports.yahoo.com/nba/players/2628/splits

But I think everyone can agreed if we go into next season with Juwon Howard & Scott Padgett as or rotation for PF it would be a big disappointment. I think we can stand an upgrade at all non Yao & T-Mac positions.

 

Sounds like Antonio Daniels too me.

I agree, we don't need a 3rd option. We need guys who fill rolls on the team and play defense.

 

Agreed, but if we just switch JH out for another starter, we are still at square one in upgrading the backup PF. The idea of bringing another PF in to start and having JH come off the bench is a mistake. I don't think JH would be a good bench player. He is also too expensive for a backup PF. JH is not our long term solution at PF, but he is adequate for next year. Our most glaring problem is an old and slow backcourt. Let's find out at least one mid to long term solution there this offseason.

 

It's funny how a notion of needing a defensive, athletic and shotblocking pf turns into "we only need some like that". Sorry, folks, we need the best overall pf available and that guy is Shareef Abdul Rahim.

 

Having been in the minority on this subject for a month I understand your pain...However, IMO your see with great insight.

 

A few things.

First, Shareef is a good midrange shooter, a good rebounder, and an underrated defender. He'd be an upgrade over Howard defensively, and would immediately become our best defensive rebounder. He's still very quick off the floor and has natural rebounding instincts.

Second, why is everyone saying that he's not the same player since his injuries? The ONLY major injury he's had is a problem in his right elbow, which was corrected in surgery. I get the feeling that most of the people talking about his injury problems didn't even know what his injury was.

Third, Shareef is not a 3, he's a 4 with quickness and shooting range. But he's a very tricky post player, and has some of the best fakes in the league.

Shareef brings three things we need: More athleticism, good defensive rebounding, and another consistent scoring option. He's also a pretty good passer and an intelligent, team-first guy. A leader he is not, but a good, solid character guy he is.

He should be our number one target. Just a reminder, Kurt Thomas turns 33 in October.

 

I have to disagree. 82games shows that SAR is the worst defender of all the PFs we are looking at (including Howard). 82games also says he is the second worst rebounder of all the PFs we are looking at (including Howard).

 

I'm not sure it's fair to judge SAR by last year's performance, as he was playing hurt before he had elbow surgery and was playing more time at the 3 than he would have liked.

In 03-04 with the Hawks (before being traded) Atlanta was much better defensively when Abdur Rahim was on the floor (103.9ppg/48min allowed with him on the floor, 110.8ppg/48min allowed with him off the floor. 45.7% Eff. FG% allowed with him on the floor, 49.6% Eff. FG% allowed with him off the floor) and he made a bigger rebounding impact as well.

Like Howard, SAR tends to perform much better when given more playing time, and consistent playing time (remember how much Howard's rebounding improved when Taylor was knocked out of the rotation?). He didn't get that last year with Portland, and he played with an injured elbow to boot.

 

I don't know who you consider we're looking at, but if you go through Howard, Swift, Marshall, Andersen, Kwame, Kurt Thomas, and Chandler along with SAR (using Clutch's list plus a couple others for good measure). Of that list, only SAR and Marshall have positive aggregate PERs at the 4 position. Should tell you just how much better an offensive player he is than the rest.

By 82games measure, SAR is a better defender than Kurt Thomas at the 4.

I think JVG's schemes are the perfect way to "hide" his deficiencies.

lee- The Rockets play a lot of rotations. If you in effect substitute Wesley (or any 2-guard) for SAR on those rotations that's a going to drop the team speed. Those shots Finley or Stack took that Wes and crew were able to close out on would be a different story for SAR.

 

SAR is a good guy and a good player. Some of you discount that. I don't. This is a guy that will play his role on this team - and be a badass acquisition. If you have your frickin' panties in a wad trying to out-posture your woofing frat brothers over toughness, that's your issue, girlie. This guy can flat out play, and is very smart. You want a gazelle grabbing caveman with a cro-magnon intellect, go for swift. You'll be disappointed.

SAR, AD, Daniels would be sweet. We'd get three smart players that don't f--- everything up. You guys want dumb asses. Good luck with that.

 

Of that list, I liken the idea of us taking Kwame off of Washington's hands. We have a better coach, better players (really just more veterans), and a better team chemistry going for Kwame to prosper. There was alot of doubt and uncertainty about his team and it's future in it throughout the season. Mostly because of the lack of veterans on it. He doesn't seem like a headcase like Eddie was, but just young and immature. He could turn out to be a steal much like Eddie has for Minnesota.

 

Redundancy isn't always a minus. In the computer field one attribute about a stable system is the level of hardware redundancy. It's can be said that we lost the season because we have zero redundacy at pf spot. If there was a second J Howard on the team we would've won over the Mavs. Not to mention as an upgrade SAR isn't exactly redundant next to J Howard. Getting SAR is one stone four birds. It improves the depth at pf spot, upgrades rebounding, gets us younger and most important of all, provides the Rockets with a formidable scoring trio.

The Rockets offense need more talent to fill up the gaps and scoring droughts that killed us in the playoffs. For those who value one or two extra blocks and athleticism over the ability to carry the offense for stretches. Maybe the apt question is, when T-mac is off or absent due to minor injuries, when Yao is tired or foul plagued, when the guards can't shoot, in short, when the Rockets are lacking firepower or in scoring droughts, what is the best choice to remedy the situation? To put the hope on a athletic player who gives you a few more blocks or a proven scorer who doesn't lack in reboudning and athleticism? If it's the former I'd only place the hope on top defensive players like Ron Artest, Dikembe Mutombo, Dennis Rodman or Ben Wallace - guys who can consistently change a game with their defense. I'm not gonna bet on unproven players like Swift to fill that role. If the choice is the latter, we are staring SAR right in the eye.

We already have Deke to play the rebounding shotblocking role, but we severely lack a player who can step up as #1 or#2 option. Getting SAR fills that need and also has a benefit on improving our perimeter players. With the scoring need addressed at the pf spot, the Rockets have less need at the guards position, meaning it's not a must to get players like Bill Simmons or Bonzi Wells. We only need to find a cheap player like Raja Bell who can be a spot up outside shooter and decent defender. On the contrary, getting Swift is good for defense, but will be difficult to find another proven scorer. Getting Bonzi Wells or Bill Simmons are good, but will be difficult to find a quality pf.

In the end I think it'll be played out with the ways we get the players. If SAR can only be signed as a free agent, and Stromile Swift can come through sign and trade, I'd rather get Swift and spend the MLE on a nice guard. For the same reason, if SAR can come via S & T, there is no reason for the Rockets not to pick him up. SAR + quality guard > Swift + quality guard > SAR > Swift is my order of priority. The bottom line to me is if signing conditions are held constant, the Rockets can't go wrong with SAR.

 

Panda nice post, I don't see JHo being redundant if we get SAR.

from pasox2:

This is what I wanted to say but couldn't get quite pissed off enough to do so. If SAR goes for a money grab then he's out of our ballpark. But if he wants to come here we should be drooling.

He fits here. Personally and professionally. And there's not another 4 out there that can stick the jumper and go to the hole like he can that we have any shot at.

Swift would be a joke in our offense, Marshall is a stop-gap measure that isn't likely to propel us anywhere.

SAR's the high reward guy without much risk. His detractors seemingly are talking about a 35 year old Glenn Rice and I just don't buy it.

 

Rahim is not Larry Nance. Did anybody watch Nance in the 80's? He was very athletic for a man of his size at that time. We need 3 things to turn us to an elite team or championship contender:

PG: He can run the floor well. Good defensive player. Don't turn the ball over. Hit the open jumper.

Bench: He can shoot the ball. Very good at hitting the 3 pt. shot.

PF: He can defend the weakside from pick and roll plays. Very good rebounder. He can defend good PF of the West. He is athletic. He can score inside and get garbage pts.

This summer is very, very important for our team. The wrong role players can affect the team for years. Rahim is a very good player, but he is not the right role player for this team. Rahim's point production may even slip being the 3rd option for the Rox.

People stated that Bowen can guard Rahim, but that is not correct. Bowen will guard either the 2 or 3. Usually Team 1 will rotate different players to defend Team 2 best player. (e.g. Shaq, T-Mac). Who will Rahim guard? Will he defend Nazr or Duncan?

One more point, Why do most of the pro-SAR people think the Rahim will just take the MLE. Why would a 28-29 very good PF take a 9 million pay cut this year? He does have a family to feed. He makes a lot of money, and he may spend a lot of money. On the serious side, Rahim's agent will advise him against taking this drastic pay cut.

 

Why would the Blazers S&T Sar for Spoon and Ward? What purpose does that serve the Blazers? Because Spoon and Ward are expiring contracts? I mean if that was the case then the Blazers would just let SAR walk. The Blazers are only going to S&T SAR if they can get a player of quality in return OR they can off load some albatross contracts on someone.

Why would the Sonics S&T Daniels for Wesley? Do they need another 2 guard? I would suggest a better solution which would be Mike James for S&T Daniels. The Sonics NEED a backup to Ridnour whereas they have no need for a backup SG.

As for Raja. I dont know. He excells in the Jazz system. But so did Shandon Anderson. I am leery of Jazz role players that are successful.

Again, I dont mind SAR on the Rockets, but it would be with the expectation of him being the PF and not SF. Tmac is locked into the SF spot on this team which I think is obvious considering the way JVG/CD have constructed this roster over the last half season.

 

I know SAR had a knee injury earlier in his career.As to the degree,I can't remember.In addition,there was a lower back problem.
Does anyone know the specifics of the injuries?Anyway,I'm sure CD,JVG,and Keith will be all over it.
That said SAR has always intigued me,esp.when he was younger,but I wonder if he's part of the solution or a potential problem on the court and against the cap.

 

Deuce, I completely agree with you about Spoon being involved in a SnT with the Blazers or Grizz. I made that point a few weeks ago and got blasted by someone. Any team that takes Spoon over the summer just for his contract out to be ashamed, because that means they are giving up on the season before it even starts. Near the trade deadline, Spoon, Ward, Wesley, Moochie, Vin Baker will be valuable commodities. But only Wesley can play NBA basketball, which is why he is definitely tradeable over the summer, whether to the Sonics or another team. Mike James is also.

 

dharocks & NIKEstrad,

I was using Net PER, Defensive PER & their rebounder rating. Yes, SAR had a much better year at Atlanta. +7.4 net PER at PF (better than anyone this year)and 14.4 Def PER (Tied for second best this year) and rebounding rating of 24.8 (5th of the 10). I prefer to use the PER numbers as those are for the particular player and the +/- are how the team did.

I have a list of Boozer, O. Harrington, Marshall, SAR, Odom, D. Songaila, Swift, Evans, Howard and last is K. Brown. Chandler we have no shot at. I have all the data in a spreadsheet but I don't know how to post it formatted correctly.

I just prefer Marshall over SAR but I would be happy with either. I think Marshall's offensive game would be effected less as he has always been a roll player getting his shots when he is open not having plays run for him all the time. Marshall is also a better rebounder & shotblocker. But like I said either will do for me.

 

The problem with Shareef's redundancy is not just that he's too similar with Howard, he's also too similar to Yao. With SAR, Howard, and Yao here, all of our primary big men will be considered soft, offensive minded big men, that are not particular good at rebounding or defense. If they're not scoring, they are of little use to the team.

I'd much rather have 2 redundant guards than redundant big men. Having 2 players (Yao and SAR) that are so similar and both prefer to play the post can really disrupt the offensive flow. Abdur-Rahim's offense is similar to Maurice Taylor. A lot of his points don't come in the flow. They come from ISO plays where someone throws the ball to him in the post and the rest of the players just stand and watch.

According to 82games, only 54% of SAR's field goal attempts are jumpshots and only 69% of those are assisted jump shots. In contrast, 71% of Juwan Howard shots are jumpshots and 78% of those assisted. If SAR comes here, he's going to have to make some major adjustments. He's going to have to learn to play without the ball (something he hasn't done his whole 9 years in the league) and he's going to be primarily a spot up jump shooter like Howard.

This team doesn't rely on it's big men score. Our record in games when Howard is getting 8 or more rebounds or when Yao and Mutombo are blocking shots is extremely good. This team is much more dependent on it's big men to rebound and intimidate the paint area rather than scoring.