You're telling me the Cavs brought in Shaquille O'Neal because he's some elite defender who will lock down dwight and match him post move for post move defensively? They brought him there because he has size and isn't a stiff.
After watching game 2 video, I can't say Howard played like trash. It was obvious that he was craptacular in game 1, but he played as well as he has all year in the post in game 2. He wasn't superb, because I think the stats are a little inflated due to Howard thriving off of drive creation, offensive put backs, loose-ball foul free throws...but he was solid. A 0.94 or 1.0 ppp (depending if you count the alley-oop) is definitely good. So he was useless in game one and good in the post in game 2, and overall great in game 2. I'm interested in seeing how the rest of this series goes for him. And yeah, Durvasa is right that it is all relative. I still love Scola and think his versatility and polished post game allows him to be at least somewhat effective even against the better defenders. And we are all sort of dismissing Perkins here. That dude is a great low-post defender. If it's Lakers-Celtics, then I'd really look forward to seeing how Gasol/Bynum would do against him.
The major reason Shaq was brought in was to match up with Dwight Howard. As good a defensive team as the Cavs were last year, they could not defend Howard effectively.
wow.........just stop trying, it's okay, people make mistakes Here, I will explain it to you. Apparently you still don't see it after reading it 20 times. You first said that: Howard's post game = Howard over powering his defender and dunking over the defender Then you stated that: The Cavs brought in Shaq so that Howard can not over power and dunk over the defender, and not because of [Howard's post game]. It's simple math here, just subsitute [Howard over powering his defender and dunking over the defender] for [Howard's post game] since they are equal Result: The Cavs brought in Shaq so that Howard can not over power and dunk over the defender, and not because of Howard over powering his defender and dunking over the defender see the contradiction here? Also, your claim that "Put a big who howard cant over power and howard is pretty much useless" is stupid. Why don't you just say, put a defender who Kobe or Lebron can't shoot over and get past and they are useless.
Ok what happens when howard cant over power the defender? Where is his post game then? What does he do then? Shoot his beautiful hook shot? His incredible turn around jumper? If your argument is that post game in general is just over powering the defender and dunking then ok he has post game. That however isnt the case but go ahead and over rate the guy. I like dwight and have nothing against him but to say the guy has post game is just stupid.
Apparently you don't read all the posts before posting. Please take the time to read my previous post. It's post #55. Having a post game has nothing to do with the post moves. It's about being efficient, just re-read my post.
LMAO...you let me know the next time a team's strategy revolves around defending Kobe and LeBron one on one. If your post game doesn't FORCE doubles and defensive adjustments, it is not good. Howard's being good is relative. There are only a few players/teams that can employ this stategy effectively. Or at least have the cajones to do it. So against 90% of the NBA, Howard has an effective and effecient post game. Unfortuanately, the title goes through the 10% that can effectively defend him.
That's why for me, assuming Boston gets past the Magic, I'd be really curious to see if Perkins can defend Bynum/Gasol 1-on-1. For the Lakers have much more deadly weapons than the Magic, and so it would be in Boston's interest to single team Gasol if Perkins can stop him.
Well, for all it's done for Cleveland now, darkwarrior..... ...the Cavaliers got what they paid for with good old Shaquille O'Neal. The Cavaliers did bring Shaq onto their club for the express purpose of negating Dwight Howard. That fact, in and of itself, should let anybody know who's curious just how overrated a primary low-post option Dwight Howard currently is. Shaquille O'Neal, even in his heyday, was never considered a defensive center, although his mammoth size did the job well enough of giving people pause whenever they decided to venture into the lane. In fact, when Phil Jackson coached O'Neal in Los Angeles, he made it a point to get Shaq to become a better interior defender and rebounder. Shaq didn't start to win his league and Finals MVPs until he did a better job of doing what his position required—and that was to defend and rebound. O'Neal routinely faced much better offensive centers than Howard in his youth and prime. Not that O'Neal did anything particularly special against any of those hall of fame centers (he was enough of a physical force offensively in his own right to offset his counterpart most of the time), but Shaq is capable of playing decent low post defense when he wants. Which is why the last two experiments with O'Neal in Phoenix and Cleveland haven't gone quite as planned, in my opinion. It's never been Shaq's first instinct to play defense (his pick-and-roll defense was never good even in his prime—and now it's downright embarrassing), and too often teams seem to try to accommodate the fantasy that O'Neal has that he's still the same Shaq-Deisel at 40 years old that he was at 28. Shaq is a role player at this stage of his career, and has been for the past three or four seasons. Unfortunately, the role O'Neal has to play isn't one he's accustomed to, or even suited for at this point of his career. O'Neal won't anchor a defense for anybody now, and that's the only real value he has to any team on the floor now. Even so, had Shaq faced Dwight Howard and the Magic, I believe that the Cavaliers would have at least the same advantage that the Celtics currently hold against them. Dwight Howard isn't the player that you get the ball to in order to create an advantage for himself or his team...at least, he isn't yet. He can finish plays near the basket obviously, but against anyone who can afford to play him one-one-one, he doesn't present enough of a consistent problem for a good defensive team to compromise itself in order to stop him. The biggest mistake the Magic have made is asking Howard to be something he clearly is not ready to be yet—and that's a half-court offensive anchor. It takes much more than Howard's otherworldly athleticism to do that at this time of the year. It takes skill...which Howard still woefully lacks. The Magic offensively are at their best to me, when they have a lot of action that gets Howard on the move (from back-screens to free up perimeter shooters), pick-and-roll situations, and offensive rebounding opportunities.The Magic have three players (Jameer Nelson, Vince Carter and Rashard Lewis) who can manufacture offense for themselves and their teammates. That's where they're going to need to go if they aren't ready to go on summer vacation yet. I've heard many people who should know better say that the Magic will only win if Howard is ready to carry them. Maybe because it's been so long since anybody saw a decent offensive low-post player (how quickly some forget Tim Duncan...and even The Adventures of Shaquille O'Neal when he was a boy)..... ...you know, I think I'd take my chances on Yao Ming's brittle bones, too....
So now you've put Howard's post game on the level of Lamarcus Aldridge and Luis Scola. Is that supposed to be some impressive feat for the "best center in the league?" If the "best center in the league" can be rendered useless - in your own words - by Kendrick Perkins, then one might question that center's craft.
You make a good point, but another way to think about it is: why does the best center in the league have to have the best post moves? Dwight howard may not be skilled enough to develop enough post moves but one of his greatest threats is his agility and ability to run quick pick and rolls. The Cavaliers had a very hard time defending Dwight Howard's pick and roll last year, and no other center in the league that I know of can run the play like he does. Dwight Howard being the best center in the league has nothing to do with his post moves, because he only has a few. It the combination of defensive ability, agility, quickness, strength, and all sorts of other things that makes him special.
Howard isn't considered the best center in the league because he has a refined post game. And whether Howard's game is "impressive" really isn't the issue. I don't judge players by how impressive they are; I judge them by how effective they are.
Right, he's considered the best center in the league because the dearth of talent at the position and because his better is eternally on the IR. Right, he's as effective as Lamarcus Aldridge.
http://www.hardwoodparoxysm.com/2010/05/20/conference-finals-dwight-howards-post-game-adjustments/ [rquoter] For someone without a post game as many fans like to claim, Dwight Howard sure did find a way to bounce back from a 13-point, seven-turnover performance in Game One to score 30 points and get the Celtics into foul trouble in Game Two. I put together this video to hopefully give you a better idea of how Dwight adapted to the way the Celtics were defending him. Enjoy: [video] Dwight Howard definitely has a post game and it’s still growing. Ever since some time in January, Dwight has been showing real improvement in the way he scores with his back to the basket and when he faces up and drives on his defenders. Like I said in the video, he doesn’t have a huge repertoire of moves. He’s definitely not going to be doing any Kevin McHale impersonations any time soon. But he has a couple of go-to moves in the paint. The problem with Dwight is his positioning and the way his body is constructed. Think about powerful centers like Moses Malone, Shaquille O’Neal and even guys like Patrick Ewing and Hakeem Olajuwon to some extent. All of those guys were blessed with tree trunks for legs. Some of them were blessed with big behinds too. These natural physical assets are the reason they were able to dominate and score so easily in the post when they needed to. They had leverage (not a TNT plug but it feels like it because of the constant promos we’ve seen during the playoffs). Dwight doesn’t have that luxury. He has skinny legs and a small waist. He’s built much more like David Robinson except he doesn’t have the shooting ability. Guys like that have a hard to moving people around in the post with their lower body. Instead, Dwight has to either accept the postposition afforded to him by the defensive player or try to push his way with his upper body into better position without drawing a foul. It’s great that his upper body is so physically impressive because it allows him to be very good defensively and a strong rebounder. But the fact that he doesn’t have more junk in the trunk means that he’s going to be a center of gravity disadvantage when trying to score with his back to the basket. Considering he has to make due with the way he’s built, I’d say he does a pretty good job scoring inside. Give him room to operate by spreading the floor and a confident, relaxed and poised Dwight will unleash his small set of post moves and do it effectively. Hopefully for Orlando, it will turn into some wins in this series. [/rquoter]
Yes, one might. By the way, here are the box scores from two of the last three times Yao has played against Kendrick Perkins: http://sports.espn.go.com/nba/boxscore?gameId=281104010 http://sports.espn.go.com/nba/boxscore?gameId=280102002 In those two games, he scored a combined 27 points, on 11-34 (32%) shooting, with 6 turnovers. I guess everyone here should be questioning Yao's craft. Alternatively, we could admit that Kendrick Perkins is a damn good defensive center and the Celtics are the best defensive team in the league when they're focused.
A player, or team for that matter (the Suns have been in a similar predicament), can be very effective against the majority of the league but when they meet certain matchups they aren't as effective. What if those matchups will ALWAYS be there in the later rounds of the playoffs?
Dwight Howard is an efficient scorer in the paint because of his athleticism, not because of his post game I would like to see Dwight Howard in 5 to 10 years. How will he score without his athleticism then? Hopefully he has some reliable post moves by then. I am in the camp that efficiency scoring in the paint =/= having a post game
Alternatively, we could admit that you cherry-picked one bad game and one average Yao game (19 points & 13 rebounds) while leaving out the last game Yao went up against Perkins where he was the team leader in points (26, btw), rebounds, assists, and blocks. Nice one.
Screw these DH-HYPE threads. Next thing we will see is comparisons to the DREAM. O Wait it happened already.......
