not an easy comparison because of different positions and roles. and that this is a poll made by a suspect rookie. Magic was the best PG of all time and he ran with HOFers Worthy and Kareem and a HOF coach Riley. In the early years, Dream rolled with a team with great potential and beat Magic soundly. If Magic didn't get HIV, Jordan didn't decide to play baseball.... MadMax's legacy would have sky rocketed! actually Magic and Maxwell were good friends. its one of those strange facts
Its decently legit. There'd be people who'd choose Shaq over Magic. Not saying they're smart, just that they would. Doesnt mean they're "looney". Magic is a top 10 player ever and will probably always be the best ever point guard. In TODAY'S NBA for sure its Magic.
no, i just don't think he was god like and invincible. i know that phil jackson and some good moves were part of his success. i know that in his entire career, he's been beat many times but people never remember that. I don't like the fact that people spit on my Rockets championships and use him as the excuse even though I am by far a better nba fan. I had this incident in DC where my friend's pal was a 'jordan' fan and he started this crap about the Rockets. then I COMPLETELY PWNED HIM by naming him every player on the Bulls and exposed him for not knowing how DOUG COLLINS (MJ's first coach) was. Its a genius marketing campaign that Jordan did all this on his own. It sells lots of shoes. lets just say that Jordan (Fake Bulls fan cause he can't outknowledge a Rockets fan on the Bulls history) doesn't like me.
I Love Hakeem because he brought a whole new dimension to the center position. But just being a diehard basketball fan, I wanted to play like Magic. He brought so much to the table, skills, personality and most importantly FUN. He was fun to watch. Not that Hakeem wasn't, but some of the **** Magic did was downright nasty. 20 foot bounce passes, looking one way and going the other way, spin moves, whatever. I just knew that I wanted him to be on my team because at least I'd get a touch. Magic would be the only person I'd ever consider picking over Dream. It's just a shame he had to play for another team. And one other thing that has been probably mentioned, but can Jordan or anybody claim that they have won a title at the high school, college and NBA level in 4 years. 4 years!!!! That's unreal.
first, you don't compare players of different positions. sometimes you can't compare players of different eras. last, in my mind, hakeem = wilt = goat. the mj's and magic's come a tad lower.
A better poll would be Jordan vs Magic so you can have fair comparison of guards and take the Dream factor out of this. I mean, if you had to choose between throwing a 2007 or 2008 clutchfan out of an airplane without a parachute to get Hakeem's sneakers, I would do it in a second. not close!
Only I can dream to have a prime Magic to play for today's Rocket! How about this: PG : Magic SG : Tmac SF : Battier PF : Hakeem C : Yao
In my mind, Magic Johnson is the greatest NBA player of all time. As a Rockets fan, he frustrated the crap out of me.
Hard to say, this goes back to that great wing player vs. great big man argument. You really can't go wrong either way, I'm gonna take the safe bet and say whatever the needs of team are. Magic can make any play (pass) on the court and grab rebounds, but again he can't give you the same defense Olajuwon gave. With great PG or passer, you have to have the right team in place, with a big man you can just throw him in there and let him go to work. With that being said, I would take Magic over Shaq, Kobe, Bird, and Russell. I wouldn't take Magic over the other MJ, Wilt, younger Kareem, and possibly Dream.
tinman makes great points about Magic's teams being loaded. I just can't argue against a man who took his team to the finals nine times in twelve years. Hakeem's all-world play on both sides of the ball gets thrown out the window when you factor in Magic's ability to play any position. Kareem gets injured and the Lakers start him at center, in his freaking rookie year, and they don't miss a beat. At best, it's a wash. If I'm building a team around a guy, I pick Dream just because he's so lethal offensively and defensively. If I know I'm going to have some talent to play with, I take Magic because he will get the most out of them.
Magic wasn't better than Jordan. Jordansbulls from realgm posted this earlier. Highest PPG Average: 30.12 Most seasons leading league in Points: 11 Most scoring titles: 10 Highest PER Efficiency: 27.91 Also, MJ is no doubt the greatest playoff performer and IMO he was the greatest Road Player Ever. Most of his greatest feats happened on the road. The Playoffs is where you make your name and where greatness is defined. Playoffs Most Points Per Game (min. 25 games) 33.4 by Michael Jordan (179 games) Most Points in a Game 63 by Michael Jordan Most 50 Point Games 8 by Michael Jordan Most 40 Point Games 38 by Michael Jordan Most 30 Point Games 109 by Michael Jordan Most 20 Point Games 174 by Michael Jordan (he played 179 playoff games and scored under 20 only 5 times) MJ: NBA Regular-season records Michael Jordan holds: -Most seasons leading league in scoring: 10 -Highest scoring average, career: 30.12ppg -Most consecutive points, one game: 23 -Most seasons leading league in field goals made: 10 -Most consecutive gms in double figures in scoring: 866 -Most consecutive seasons leading PER: 7 -Highest career PER: 27.91 -Oldest player to score 40+ points: age 40 (43 pts) -Oldest player to score 50+ points: age 38 (51 pts) NBA Regular-season records Michael Jordan shares: -Most consecutive seasons leading league in scoring: 7 (tied with Wilt Chamberlain) -Most consecutive seasons, 2,000 plus points: 11 (Tied with Malone) NBA Playoff records Michael Jordan holds: -Highest scoring average, career: 33.4ppg -Record Total points: 5987 -Record Most FTS made: 1463 -Most points playoffs, one-game: 63 -Most points playoffs, three-game series: 135 (vs. Miami, 1992) -Most Points playoffs, five-game series: 226 (vs. Cleveland, 1988) -Most field goals made playoffs, three-game series: 53 (vs. Miami, 1992) -Most field goals made playoffs, five-game series: 86 (vs. Philadelphia, 1990) -Most field goals made playoffs, six-game series: 101 (vs. Phoenix, 1993) -Most consecutive 50pt games: 2 -Most consecutive 45pt games: 3 -Most consecutive games, 20 plus points: 60 -Most free throws made, one quarter: 13 -Most free throws attempted, one quarter: 14 -Most 50 point games: 8 -Most 40 point games: 39 -Most consecutive points: 23 NBA Playoff records Michael Jordan shares: -Most field goals, in a game: 24 (vs. Cleveland, May 1, 1988; tied with two others) -Most three-point field goals made, one half: 6 (first half vs. Portland, June 3, 1992; tied with four others) NBA Finals records Michael Jordan holds: - Highest Scoring average: 33.6 -Most points, six-game series: 246 (vs. Phoenix, 1993) -Most field goals made, five-game series: 63 (vs. L.A. Lakers, 1991) -Most field goals made, six-game series: 101 (vs. Phoenix, 1993) -Most steals, five-game series: 14 (vs. L.A. Lakers, 1991) -Highest scoring average, one series: 41.0 (vs. Phoenix, 1993) -Most consecutive games, 40-plus points: 4 (June 11, 1993 to June 18, 1993) -Most consecutive 30 point games: 9 -Most consecutive games, 20-plus points: 29 (June 22, 1991 to June 1997) -Most points, one-half: 35 (vs. Portland, June 3, 1992) -Most consecutive field goals: 13 (Vs. LA) -Most consecutive points: 23 (Vs. Seattle) -Most Finals MVPs: 6 Here is Kobe's KOBE: NBA Regular-season records Kobe holds: -All-rookie game (now defunct): 31 points NBA Regular-season records Kobe Shares: -Most 3 pointers in one game: 12 (shared with 1 player) -Most 3 pointers in one half: 8 (5 players) -Most consecutive 3 pointers: 9 (2 players) -Most free throws made in one quarter: 14 (5 players) -Most free throws attempted one quarter: 16 (6 players) NBA Playoff Records Kobe holds: -NONE NBA Playoff Records Kobe Shares: -NONE NBA Finals records Kobe holds: -NONE NBA Finals records Kobe Shares: -NONE Conclusion: MJ still owns the most scoring records as well as ALMOST ALL THE PLAYOFF Records. Take a look at the all time scoring feats at the bottom. MJ has 21 of them and the most important ones, Wilt has 16, Kobe has 1. Take away Wilt and MJ climbs to 26 and Kobe has 8. Below that are MJ's records and KB's records. Not even close. Here's a list of ALL-TIME SCORING RECORDS. - Highest career scoring average: MJ 30.12 - Highest career playoff scoring average: MJ 33.4 - Highest career Finals scoring average: MJ 33.6 - Highest single season scoring average: Wilt 50.4 - Highest single series playoff average: West 46.3 - Highest single Finals series average: MJ 41.0 - Most seasons leading league in scoring: MJ 10 - Most consecutive seasons leading in scoring: MJ, Wilt tied at 7 - Most 50 point games: Wilt 118 - Most 50 point games playoffs: MJ 8 - Most 40 point games: Wilt 271 - Most 40 point games playoffs: MJ 42 - Most consecutive 60 point games: Wilt 4 - Most consecutive 50 point games: Wilt 7 - Most consecutive 50 point games in playoffs: MJ 2 - Most consecutive 45 point games: Wilt 7 - Most consecutive 45 point games playoffs: MJ 3 - Most consecutive 40 point games: Wilt 14 - Most consecutive 40 point games rookie: AI 5 - Most consecutive 40 point games playoffs: West 6 - Most consecutive 40 point games finals: MJ 4 - Most consecutive 35 point games: Wilt 33 - Most consecutive 30 point games: Wilt 65 - Most consecutive 30 point games playoffs: Elgin 11 - Most consecutive 30 point games finals: MJ 9 - Most consecutive 20 point games: Wilt 126 - Most consecutive 20 point games playoffs: MJ 60 - Most consecutive 20 point games finals: MJ 35 - Most consecutive double figures scoring: MJ 866 - Most consecutive points in one game: MJ 23 - Most consecutive points in one game playoffs: MJ 23 - Highest scoring game: Wilt 100 - Highest scoring game playoffs: MJ 63 - Highest scoring game finals: Elgin 61 - Highest scoring game rookie: Wilt 58 - Highest scoring all-star game: Wilt 42 - Highest scoring all-rookie game: Kobe 31 - Most points in 3 quarters: Wilt 69 - Most points in one half: Wilt 59 - Most points one half playoffs: Sleepy Floyd 39 - Most points in one half finals: MJ 35 - Most points one half all-star game: Rice 24 - Most points in one quarter: Gervin 33 - Most points in one quarter playoffs: Sleepy Floyd 29 - Most points in one quarter finals: Isiah 25 - Most points in one quarter all-star game: Rice 20 - Most points in OT: Arenas 16 - Most points in OT playoffs: Drexler 13 - Most points in OT in finals: Havlicek, Laimbeer, Ainge tied at 9 - Oldest to score 50: MJ 51 at age 38 - Oldest to score 40: MJ 43 at age 40 http://sportsillustrated.cnn.com/basketball/nba/2002/playoffs/top_individual_points/ Top Playoff Single-Game Scoring Performances Player Team Opponent Total Date Michael Jordan Chicago at Boston 63 April 20, 1986 Elgin Baylor L.A. Lakers at Boston 61 April 14, 1962 Wilt Chamberlain Philadelphia Syracuse 56 March 22, 1962 Michael Jordan Chicago at Miami 56 April 29, 1992 Charles Barkley Phoenix at Golden State 56 May 4, 1994 Michael Jordan Chicago Cleveland 55 May 1, 1988 Michael Jordan Chicago Phoenix 55 June 16, 1993 Michael Jordan Chicago Washington 55 April 27, 1997 John Havlicek Boston Atlanta 54 April 1, 1973 Michael Jordan Chicago New York 54 May 31, 1993 Allen Iverson Philadelphia Toronto 54 May 9, 2001 Wilt Chamberlain Philadelphia Syracuse 53 March 14, 1960 Jerry West L.A. Lakers Boston 53 April 23, 1969 Jerry West L.A. Lakers Baltimore 52 April 5, 1965 Allen Iverson Philadelphia Toronto 52 May 16, 2001 Sam Jones Boston at New York 51 March 28, 1967 Eric Floyd Golden State L.A. Lakers 51 May 10, 1987 Bob Cousy Boston Syracuse 50* March 21, 1953 Bob Petit St. Louis Boston 50 April 12, 1958 Wilt Chamberlain Philadelphia at Boston 50 March 22, 1950 Wilt Chamberlain San Francisco St. Louis 50 April 10, 1964 Billy Cunningham Philadelphia Milwaukee 50 April 1, 1970 Bob McAdoo Buffalo Washington 50 April 18, 1975 Dominique Wilkins Atlanta Detroit 50 April 19, 1986 Michael Jordan Chicago Cleveland 50 April 28, 1988 Michael Jordan Chicago Cleveland 50^ May 5, 1989 Karl Malone Utah Seattle 50 April 22, 2000 Vince Carter Toronto Philadelphia 50 May 11, 2001 *4 overtimes ^overtime NBA PLAYOFFS HIGH SCORING GAME BY YEAR 1946-47 - 37 Joe Fulks, PHW vs CHI at PHW 16Apr47 1947-48 - 34 Connie Simmons, BLT vs NYK at BLT 27Mar48 1948-49 - 42 George Mikan, MPL vs WSC 4Apr49 @ MPL 1949-50 - 40 George Mikan, MPL vs SYR at MPL 23Apr50 1950-51 - 41 George Mikan, MPL vs IDS at MPL 21Mar51 1951-52 - 47 George Mikan, MPL at ROC 29Mar52 1952-53 - 50 Bob Cousy, BOS vs SYR at BOS 21Mar53 1953-54 - 36 Dolph Schayes, SYR at NYK 21Mar54 1954-55 - 32 Bill Sharman, BOS at SYR 24Mar55 1955-56 - 43 Neil Johnson, PHW at SYR 25Mar56 1956-57 - 42 Bob Leonard, MPL vs STL at MPL 25Mar57 1957-58 - 50 Bob Pettit, STL vs BOS at STL 12Apr58 1958-59 - 40 Cliff Hagan, STL vs MPL at STL 21Mar59 1959-60 - 53 Wilt Chamberlain, PHW vs SYR at PHW 14Mar60 1960-61 - 47 Elgin Baylor, LAL at DET 18Mar61 ............... 47 Elgin Baylor, LAL at STL 27Mar61 1961-62 - 61 Elgin Baylor, LAL at BOS 14Apr62 1962-63 - 47 Sam Jones, BOS vs CIN at BOS 10Apr63 1963-64 - 50 Wilt Chamberlain, SFW vs STL at SFW 10Apr64 1964-65 - 52 Jerry West, LAL vs BAL at LAL 3Apr65 1965-66 - 46 Wilt Chamberlain, PHI vs BOS at PHI 12Apr66 1966-67 - 55 Rick Barry, SFW vs PHI at SFW 18Apr67 1967-68 - 46 Zelmo Beaty, STL vs SFW 23Mar68 @ STL 1968-69 - 53 Jerry West, LAL vs BOS at LAL 23Apr69 1969-70 - 50 Billy Cunningham, PHI vs MIL at PHI 1Apr70 1970-71 - 39 Gail Goodrich, LAL at CHI 28Mar71 1971-72 - 43 John Havlicek BOS at ATL 31Mar72 1972-73 - 54 John Havlicek, BOS vs ATL at BOS 1Apr73 1973-74 - 44 Bob McAdoo, BUF vs BOS 6Apr74 at BUF ............... 44 Kareem Abdul-Jabbar, MIL at CHI 18Apr74 1974-75 - 50 Bob McAdoo, BUF vs WAS at BUF 18Apr75 1975-76 - 45 Fred Brown, SEA vs PHO at SEA 15Apr76 1976-77 - 45 Kareem Abdul-Jabbar, LAL vs GSW at LAL 29Apr77 1977-78 - 46 George Gervin, SAN vs WAS at SAN 18Apr78 1978-79 - 42 George Gervin, SAN vs WAS at SAN 11May79 ............... 42 George Gervin, SAN at WAS 18May79 1979-80 - 44 George Gervin, SAN vs HOU at SAN 4Apr80 1980-81 - 42 Calvin Murphy, HOU at SAN 17Apr81 ............... 42 Moses Malone, HOU vs KCK at HOU 26Apr81 1981-82 - 39 George Gervin, SAN vs LAL at SAN 14May82 ............... 39 Andrew Toney, PHI vs BOS at PHI 16May82 1982-83 - 42 Alex English, DEN vs PHO at PHO 24Apr83 ............... 42 George Gervin, SAN at DEN 26Apr83 1983-84 - 46 Bernard King, NYK at DET 19Apr84 ............... 46 Bernard King, NYK vs DET at NYK 22Apr84 1984-85 - 43 Rolando Blackman, DAL vs POR at DAL 18Apr85 ............... 43 Larry Bird, BOS vs DET at BOS 8May85 1985-86 - 63 Michael Jordan, CHI at BOS 20Apr86 1986-87 - 51 Sleepy Floyd, GSW vs LAL at GSW 10May87 1987-88 - 55 Michael Jordan, CHI vs CLE at CHI 1May88 1988-89 - 50 Michael Jordan, CHI vs CLE at CHI 5May89 1989-90 - 49 Michael Jordan, CHI at PHI 11May90 1990-91 - 46 Michael Jordan, CHI at PHI 10May91 1991-92 - 56 Michael Jordan, CHI at MIA 29Apr92 1992-93 - 55 Michael Jordan, CHI vs PHO at CHI 16Jun93 1993-94 - 56 Charles Barkley, PHO at GSW 4May94 1994-95 - 48 Michael Jordan, CHI at CHA 28Apr95 1995-96 - 46 Michael Jordan, CHI at NYK 11May96 1996-97 - 55 Michael Jordan, CHI vs WAS at CHI 27Apr97 1997-98 - 45 Michael Jordan, CHI at UTA 14Jun98 1998-99 - 37 Tim Duncan, SAN at LAL 22May99 ............... 37 Scottie Pippen, HOU vs LAL at HOU 13May99 ............... 37 Shaquille O'Neal, LAL vs HOU at HOU 15May99 ............... 37 Allen Iverson, PHI vs ORL at PHI 15May99 1999-00 - 50 Karl Malone, UTA vs SEA at UTA 22Apr00 ----- ALL-TIME HIGHEST SCORING AVERAGES, NBA PLAYOFFS Jerry West, LAL vs BAL, 1965..... 46.3 Michael Jordan, CHI vs CLE, 1988..... 45.2 Michael Jordan, CHI vs MIA, 1992..... 45.0 ALL-TIME HIGHEST SCORING AVERAGES, NBA CHAMPIONSHIP SERIES/NBA FINALS Michael Jordan, CHI vs PHO, 1993..... 41.0 Rick Barry, SFW vs PHI, 1965..... 40.8 Elgin Baylor, LAL vs BOS, 1962..... 40.6 Also MJ has 6 series in the playoffs over 40+ ppg. And for people using the era difference, if that is the case why is Iverson 2nd all time in PPG in the PLAYOFFS and 3rd all time in PPG in the season? http://www.nba.com/statistics/encyc/Player.jsp PPG All Time With respect to Kobe, he is my boy and all, but seriously he never has been as good as MJ was. First off Kobe's best PER is as good as MJ's career average PER. Next off is the following: Also, Kobe in the finals. This is how they performed in the finals. http://www.usatoday.com/sports/columnist/zillgitt/2004-06-15-zillgitt_x.htm In 35 Finals games, Jordan averaged 33.6 points, 6.0 rebounds and 6.0 assists a game. In 19 Finals games, Bryant has averaged 22.2 points, 5.2 rebounds and 4.9 assists a game. MVP's - Jordan = 5; Kobe = 1 (right now) Titles - Jordan = 6 (as the #1 Option); Kobe = 3 (as the #2 Option) Finals MVP's - Jordan = 6; Kobe = 0 (right now) DPOY - Jordan = 1; Kobe = 0 Scoring Titles - Jordan = 10; Kobe = 2 Career PPG - Jordan = 30.1 (Highest Ever); Kobe = 25.0 Playoffs PPG - Jordan = 33.4 (Highest Ever); Kobe = 24.0 Playoff Points - Jordan = 5987 - Most Ever Points (179 games); Kobe = 3386 (140 games) FG% - Jordan - 50% Career; Kobe = 45% Career Thus Far Playoff FG% - Jordan = 49% Career; Kobe = 44% Career Thus Far PER (Offensive and Defensive Rating) - Jordan Career = 27.91 (highest ever); Kobe = 23.57 Steals - Jordan = 2.4 SPG Career (with 3 Steals Titles); Kobe = 1.5 SPG Blocks - Jordan = 0.8 BPG Career (most blocks ever for a guard); Kobe = 0.6 http://www.usatoday.com/sports/basketball/nba/2003-02-06-dupree-team_x.htm Here were the requirements NBA ALL-TIME LEADERS: (All statistical records + playoff records + career averages + playoff averages + MVPs + Finals MVPs + Rings + All-1st teams + All-1st Defensive Teams + All-star games + All-star MVPS) This is how it broke down each category: http://www.usatoday.com/sports/basketball/nba/2003-02-06-dupree-team_x.htm This is how it broke down each category: NBA MVP awards won (five points each) NBA championships won (five points each) All-Star Games selected to play in (one point each) All-NBA first-team selections (two points each) All-defensive first team (one point each) NBA Finals MVP awards (two points each) All-Star MVP awards (one point each) Individual statistical titles (two points each) — restricted to points, rebounds, assists, field goal percentage and free throw percentage, the stats the league has used the longest Career averages (six points each) — if a player is the NBA career leader in scoring average, rebounds, assists, field goal percentage or free throw percentage Career playoff averages (five points each) — for each category the player leads That was the criteria used 1st Place: MJ, 149 total points 2nd Place: Wilt, 124 total points 3rd Place: Bill, 118 total points 4th Place: Jabbar, 114 total points 5th Place: Magic, 102 total points Now adding up the current players you get (Active Players): 1st Place: Shaq, 85 total points 2nd Place: Tim, 71 total points 3rd Place: KB, 45 total points Kobe has like a 1/3 of the points that MJ has, he isn't even close. Now he won MVP this year and will get All NBA 1st team and Defense which means his total will be 53 points which isn't even the best in this era. These players all lost these series with Homecourt advantage which means they were the favorite. If someone was injured like a main star then that factors in, but if not that doesn't factor in the discussion. MJ never lost a series with homecourt advantage/better seed/better record. Also consider the following: Is 18% a good percentage? In what you might ask... 18% winning percentage... Pretty awful right? Well in 60 years of NBA Basketball only 11 league leading scorers have won a championship... That's 18.333333%... Their names are: Shaquille O'Neal, Michael Jordan, Kareem Abdul Jabbar, George Mikan and some guy named Joe Fulks... Most of these players were dominant Centers, who did more than just score. That means that non center players who led the league in scoring have won in an amazing 10% of the time.. and only one player did it... Michael Jordan. In one era. That phenomenon of nature who won six... 10% winning historically!!! 10 PERCENT!!! I will argue that the odds are against a high scoring guard from winning it all. Would you? I will argue that who ever is the only one to do that should be considered a truly great.. would you? I will say that the way to go is to build a team in which you get many other good options to score, a balanced attack? http://www.basketball-reference.com/about/glossary.html MJ has led in Offensive Win Shares 8x, and was 2nd 1x. 1.) Offensive Win Shares 1984-85 NBA 28.7 (3) 1986-87 NBA 29.0 (4) 1987-88 NBA 39.6 (1) 1988-89 NBA 42.7 (1) 1989-90 NBA 44.3 (1) 1990-91 NBA 40.6 (1) 1991-92 NBA 34.2 (1) 1992-93 NBA 34.1 (1) 1995-96 NBA 38.5 (1) 1996-97 NBA 37.3 (1) 1997-98 NBA 28.6 (2) NBA 413.5 (1) Career 413.5 (1) 2.) MJ has led in Win Shares 8x, and was 2nd 1x Win Shares 1984-85 NBA 40 (3) 1986-87 NBA 43 (4) 1987-88 NBA 58 (1) 1988-89 NBA 59 (1) 1989-90 NBA 59 (1) 1990-91 NBA 56 (1) 1991-92 NBA 51 (1) 1992-93 NBA 50 (1) 1995-96 NBA 57 (1) 1996-97 NBA 52 (1) 1997-98 NBA 45 (2) 3.) MJ has led in Win Shares Above Average 8x, no one else has led by even half that. Win Shares Above Average 1987-88 NBA 28.0 (1) 1988-89 NBA 27.5 (1) 1989-90 NBA 26.5 (1) 1990-91 NBA 26.5 (1) 1991-92 NBA 24.5 (1) 1992-93 NBA 23.5 (1) 1995-96 NBA 28.0 (1) 1996-97 NBA 24.0 (1) In my mind MJ is the GOAT, and I provided ample evidence of why I feel that way, but it is really close as guys like Kareem, Russell, Wilt, Magic and Bird on right their in the discussion, but when you consider how good MJ was on both ends of the court and how efficient he was as a player and the fact that he was a guard that in itself helps his case much more. Also let's not forget MJ is currently the only player to average 30+ ppg for a career in the playoffs and he is the only one to do so in the season, playoffs and finals and he has the highest average in each of them and his has the most playoff points ever. Here was a clip in 1993 where even Jerry West mentioned MJ was the best http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=m1mFE_ekV7E&mode=related&search= http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZquLVr3MeGk&feature=related @ the 1:30 mark, Dick Stockton refers to Jerry West mentioning that MJ was the greatest ever period. Pat Riley mentions that Jordan will always be considered the best http://youtube.com/watch?v=0565oawy9Ak 7:55 mark Isiah Thomas debates on why MJ was the best over Wilt http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nP-Rm2atzU0 http://www.usatoday.com/sports/basketball/nba/2003-02-06-dupree-team_x.htm Oh and you can see some of the numbers above. As for why Jordan is usually the majority pick for GOAT over those two in particular (disregarding Wilt/Kareem etc.), there are a couple of reasons: - Statistical dominance. Though Magic and Bird both put up otherworldly numbers, Jordan's production-- and not just in terms of scoring-- was stratospheric for a non-center. Jordan's average EFF (a cumulative stat that takes into account all the statistical categories and measures overall statistical impact) upon his retirement in 1993 was an astonishing 32.9. And that's an 8 season average. By comparison, Magic only topped 32.9 on one occasion, and even then just barely (33.3 EFF in '88-'89). Bird topped 32.9 on a few occasions (with EFF's of 34.3, 34.4, and 34.0), but his average EFF from 1980-1990 (not counting his last two seasons due to injuries) was "only" 30.4. Jordan's single season high in EFF was 37.0, and he topped 34 two other times as well (34.6 and 35.1). - Achievements, such as MVP's, Finals MVP's, DPOY award, and first-team and defensive first-team selections. Jordan had 5 MVP's to Magic and Bird's 3 apiece; he had 6 Finals MVP's to Magic's 3 and Bird's 2. He had a DPOY award that Magic and Bird could never hope to get. He had 10 all-NBA first-team selections to Magic's 9 and Bird's 9. Yes, Magic would have had more had he not retired and Bird would've had more if not for injuries, but Jordan would have also had 2 more had he not retired in '93, and likely a third had he not broken his foot in '86, so it's no use playing the "what if" game. Jordan also had 9 defensive first-team selections to Magic's none and Bird's 3 defensive second-team selections. - Championships. Simply put, Jordan (6) has more than either Bird (3) or Magic (5). Yes, Bird and Magic had to beat each other for rings, which precluded either of them from getting more, but they each also had tons more help than Jordan did. Regardless, arguments about league strength aside, Jordan just has more, and his period of dominance was longer than Magic or Bird's. Also, this is only one aspect of the overall picture, so even if you feel that MJ's 6 rings don't hold as much weight as Magic's 5 (though I personally feel that the strength of Magic's supporting cast relative to Jordan's is enough to counterbalance the supposedly "weaker era" and make them relatively equal accomplishments)-- but if you disagree, then just realize that this is only one aspect of a larger picture. - Overall skill. All three were among the top 5 or 6 most skilled players of all-time imo, and each had advantages over the others in various areas. Bird was the best rebounder of the bunch, Magic the best passer, Jordan the best scorer and defender. However, in their respective primes, the edges that Bird and Magic had on Jordan in these categories is not as large as the edge that Jordan had on Magic and Bird in his pet categories. For example, in his prime, Bird was capable of getting 13-17 rebounds on any given night, while in his prime, Jordan was capable of grabbing 11-14 rebounds on any given night. Magic in his prime could dish out 13-17 assists on any given night, whereas Jordan in his prime could dish out 10-14 assists on any given night. However, scoring-wise, Jordan was good for 45-55 on any given night while Bird was good for about 35-40 or so on any given night, and Magic "only" about 30-35. Also defensively, Jordan was capable of disrupting entire teams' offenses in a way that neither Magic nor Bird were ever remotely capable of; he was also capable of playing lock-down defense, which neither of them really could, and he did so fairly consistently. I have a game vs. Boston on DVD from '88 where Jordan has 8 steals at the half, and Boston literally could not run the plays they wanted to because of Jordan's presence on the court. Bird looked exasperated. He could almost singlehandedly take opposing big men out of the game with his help defense from up top and the weak side. At any rate, the gap in defense between Jordan and Magic/Bird is much more significant than Bird's edge in rebounding and Magic's edge in passing in their respective primes imo. At the very least, these 3 are a wash skill-wise. - Clutch play and dominance. Magic was clutch, to be certain, even if his clutchness often manifested itself in different ways than MJ's clutchness usually did. Bird was, obviously, a top 3 clutch player all-time (along w/Jordan and West imo), so he's in that conversation. Still, Jordan is generally considered to be the most clutch of the three, though it's not a huge advantage by any means. While all three were capable of beating you with the shot, rebound, or pass (some better than others in each category, but all capable), Jordan was a clutch defender as well, and could come up with the key block or steal or denial of a shot attempt by his man when it counted to a far greater degree than either Bird or Magic. Bird and Magic made up for their comparative lack of defensive ability with their canniness (e.g., Bird's steal vs. Detroit in the ECF), but it wasn't nearly on the same level as Jordan. Also, of the two, only Bird approaches Jordan's dominance over the league in terms of "who is the biggest bad-a$$? Who don't you want to piss off?" Bird was a bad, bad man. Jordan was badder, and he maintained that status for longer (through no fault of Bird's own; his injuries really robbed him of a few of his prime years). You put all these things together and it's difficult to pick Magic or Bird over Jordan, for me at least. I have no problem admitting that all are on the same relative level, however-- Bird especially, since he's my second favorite player after Jordan. If Bird's prime wasn't cut short, he would've went down as better than Magic imo, since his peak play ('84-'86) was better than Magic's peak play ('86-'89). Like Jerry West said of Jordan in 1993: "he's the best offensive player in the league, he's the best defensive player in the league, and he's the best competitor, playing on a team that, while suited to him, is not an ideal team. He carries that team; and very rarely do you see players carry teams to victories, much less championships. And if there's ever going to be a player who comes along that's better, I think we're all going to be sitting here scratching our heads
