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Magic Numbers against the Western Conference

Discussion in 'Houston Rockets: Game Action & Roster Moves' started by ScriboErgoSum, Feb 20, 2009.

  1. ringin08

    ringin08 Member

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    That's exactly why I say just win all of your games. I don't understand people saying we should tank a game to try to avoid the Jazz. First, I don't think RA would do it. Second, if we did that, the logical result would be the Jazz ending up in the seed we play anyway.
     
  2. tiger0330

    tiger0330 Member

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    There is now a three way tie for the third seed, SA Portland and the Rox. This is going down to the wire, a lot of tie breakers may kick in to decide matters.
     
  3. Rileydog

    Rileydog Member

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    i can't figure it out. in the three way tie among Hou, SA and Portland, the records are

    Hou - 4-3
    SA 3-5
    Portland 4-3

    Assuming that the season ended with this three way tie, how does it resolve? I've read the initial tiebreaker rules post and cant figure it out.
     
  4. Rileydog

    Rileydog Member

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    OK. Let me try again.

    3 team tie among SA, Houston and portland.

    SA gets 5th seed b/c they have the worst record at 3-5 for games played among the three.

    Houston and Portland are both 4-3.

    Then we go to conference record b/c they're not in the same division. houston has a better conf record (by a wide margin).

    Thus we get the 3 seed and Portland gets the 4 seed.

    --------

    Is that right?
     
  5. ibm

    ibm Member

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    yes, sir.
     
  6. ibm

    ibm Member

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    well, not exactly...

    after we establish the spurs as #5, we go head-to-head record b/w the remaining 2 teams. and the conclusion is the same.
     
  7. ScriboErgoSum

    ScriboErgoSum Member
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    Not true. You use the multiple team tie break to resolve all 3 teams. Rockets and Blazers tie, so it goes to conference record. Rockets win, Portland's next, and the Spurs are third place. You don't use 2 team tie break rules at all.

    However, the Southwest division title would be between us and the Spurs only, and they win the tie break right now. According to the "division leader" rule, they go to the front of the line and certainly get a top 4 seed.
     
  8. D-Lite

    D-Lite Member

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    wrong. according to to 3-team tiebreak on ESPN [scroll to the bottom].

    Since Spurs is currently the Division leader [because of division win %] they automatically get the higher seed.

    Then we go head-to-head, which the Rockets would win.

    so it would go.

    3. Spurs
    4. Rockets
    5. Blazers
     
  9. FFz

    FFz Member

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    according to http://www.nba.com/statistics/playoff_picture.html 's tiebreaker

    rule c(1)(b) When a tie must be broken to determine a division winner, the results of the tie-break shall be used to determine only the division winner and its playoff position, not any other playoff position(s).

    So san antonio is division leader but that rule means it doesnt matter in 3 team tie breaker right? I think so...

    Then rule c(2)(b) would therefore automatically make it a 2 team tie break with us and portland because spurs lose on the tie break rule b(1) Better winning percentage in all games among the tied teams.

    We then go to the better head to head record and it makes us the 3rd seed because we're 2-1 vs portland.

    The seeding would go:

    3. Houston
    4. San Antonio (division leader)
    5. Portland (home court)
     
  10. white lightning

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    I think it means first they decide between Houston and SA who is the division winner (SA based on division %). Then they decide between all 3 teams, but SA has advantage as only division winner, so SA will be 3rd because they are only division winner of the three.
     
  11. ibm

    ibm Member

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    dang it, i knew i was wrong there as soon as i posted it. should've stuck to the first post.
     
  12. Humer

    Humer Member

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    Shaping up to be a not so bad night off for us. SA lost. The Hornets just lost. Dallas is beating up on the Jazz. Heck, the Thunder is even leading the Nuggs right now. :D
     
  13. Rileydog

    Rileydog Member

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    So, if all three teams win out, then we'll wind up with the tie break over the Spurs b/c our record against playoff teams (criterion 4) is better.

    I think we'll wind up with a better record than the spurs outright. if there's a tie, I'm guessing it's between us and Portland, which we have the tiebreak.

    i'm liking our chances. No lock, but I like our chances.
     
  14. Rileydog

    Rileydog Member

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    I want the Hornets to win and Utah to lose. give me New Orleans as a 6th seed matchup. I'd prefer them over both Utah and Dallas.
     
  15. RockingRox

    RockingRox Member

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    Yesterday, the Rockets won, yet nothing happened really because almost every contender played won their games.

    Today, the Rockets are resting... Yet, the Spurs lost to the Blazers. The Hornets lost to the setting Suns. And up to now, the Jazz are being stampeded upon by the Mavs. The Thieves may have a chance to upset the Nuggets too.

    What a wonderful day! :D :D
     
  16. RockingRox

    RockingRox Member

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    It's still too early to predict that the Rockets would settle at the 3rd seat. After all the dust settled, you might find the Rockets sitting at the 2nd. Who knows...

     
  17. mag

    mag Member

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    The good thing of all is that pretty much the Rockets will dictate their destiny. If we take care of business against GS and Sac and win the home games, we should take at least the 3rd seed. :rolleyes:
     
  18. larsv8

    larsv8 Member

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    Great night for us.
     
  19. ScriboErgoSum

    ScriboErgoSum Member
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    <B>&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;Games&nbsp;&nbsp;H2H&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; &nbsp;Div&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;Con&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;Overall&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;Magic&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;</B>
    <B>&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;Team&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;W/L&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;L10&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;H2H&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;Left&nbsp;&nbsp; TB&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;Div&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;TB&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;Conf&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;TB&nbsp;&nbsp;TieBreak&nbsp;&nbsp;Number &nbsp;Diff</B>
    &nbsp;1&nbsp;Lakers&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;62-16&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;8-2&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;0-4&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;None&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;L&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;41-7&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;L&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;No*<B>&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;17</B>&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;
    &nbsp;2&nbsp;Nuggets&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;53-26&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;9-1&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;3-1&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;None&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;W&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;34-15&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;L&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;Yes*<B>&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;6</B>&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;
    &nbsp;3&nbsp;Spurs&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;50-28&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;5-5&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;2-2&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;None&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;T&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;9-6&nbsp;&nbsp; &nbsp;L&nbsp;&nbsp;32-16&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;T&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;No<B>&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;5</B>&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;(-1)
    &nbsp;4&nbsp;Rockets&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;50-28&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;7-3&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;8-6&nbsp;&nbsp; &nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;32-16
    &nbsp;5&nbsp;Blazers&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;50-28&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;7-3&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;2-1&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;None&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;W&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;28-20&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;W&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;Yes*<B>&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;4</B>&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;
    &nbsp;6&nbsp;Hornets&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;48-30&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;5-5&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;2-1&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;1H&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;W&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;8-4&nbsp;&nbsp; &nbsp;L&nbsp;&nbsp;29-19&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;W&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;Yes<B>&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;3</B>&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;(-1)
    &nbsp;7&nbsp;Jazz&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;47-31&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;5-5&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;2-2&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;None&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;T&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;32-16&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;T&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;No<B>&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;2</B>&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;(-1)
    &nbsp;8&nbsp;Mavericks&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;47-31&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;6-4&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;2-1&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;1A&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;W&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;5-8&nbsp;&nbsp; &nbsp;W&nbsp;&nbsp;26-22&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;W&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;Yes*<B>&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;1</B>&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;

    * Indicates the Tie Break is final


    <B>Clinched the #8 seed</B>

    Here is the latest batch of Magic Numbers after all games were played on <B>April 8</B>.

    The Rockets were off, but Magic Numbers were falling left and right. We wound up in a very intriguing 3 way tie.

    Race for the Southwest Update
    The Spurs-Blazers game posed a lot of questions. How would the Spurs fare against a quality opponent without Ginobili? Would Popovich rest Duncan on the second night of a back-to-back? Could the Blazers beat a Playoff bound team on the road? The Spurs played Duncan and initially didn’t look like they missed Ginobili as they raced out to a 20 point lead, but the Blazers hung in there. From the midpoint of the second quarter the Blazers steadily took control of the game and picked up a decisive win with some extremely impressive athletic play. The Blazers win the season series 3-1 over the Spurs and have to feel pretty good about themselves. The Spurs, however, look like they have serious problems as they lose for the 4th time in 6 games. Their bench is pretty thin, and Duncan’s knee is clearly bothering him. San Antonio is going to have a tough time holding on to home court, let alone the division. Brandon Roy scored 26, LaMarcus Aldridge added 20, and Joe Przybilla collected 17 rebounds for the Blazers. Tony Paker was average with 17 points and 7 assists, but Tim Duncan was wretched with just 4 points and 5 rebounds in 24 minutes of play.

    The Spur loss drops them into a tie with the Rockets at 50-28, and they lose a Magic Number. As of tonight, the Spurs still own the tie break due to a better divisional record, but the Rockets once again control their own destiny to win the division. 4 more wins for Houston, and they are the Southwest champs and at least the #3 seed, regardless of what anyone else does.

    With the Spur loss tonight, the Rockets have clinched a better winning percentage against Western Conference Playoff Teams. The Spurs currently sit at 43.5%, but can finish no higher than 48.00%. The Rockets are currently at 52%, but can finish no worse than 48.15%.

    Criterion 4: Better Winning Percentage against Playoff Teams
    Rockets Record: 13-12
    Rockets Winning Pct: .520
    Rockets Magic Number to Win: Clinched
    Spurs Record: 10-13
    Spurs Winning Pct: .435
    Spurs Magic Number to Win: Not Happening

    Rockets Remaining Games: Hornets, @Mavs
    Spurs Remaining Games: Jazz, Hornets

    For more information about the race for the Southwest Division crown, please read Post 772.

    The Rockets-Spurs-Blazers Tie
    I’m at a bit of a loss how this tie break works. The cumulative record against one another is:
    Rockets: 4-3
    Blazers: 4-3
    Spurs: 3-5

    The Rockets have a better conference record so they should win this tie break with the Blazers second and the Spurs last. The Spurs as a division leader (at least as of now) should get a top 4 seed thus getting bumped up to #4, so the final seeding would be Rockets, Spurs, Blazers. That of course sets up the very weird scenario of the Rockets having a higher seed than the Spurs even though the Spurs lead the division over the Rockets.

    The question is that damn “division leader” line in the NBA tie break rules. I don’t think that applies to Playoff seeding, but they’re clearly applying it to the current standings. The Spurs as the division leader get bumped to the top of this 3 team tie, and the Rockets win the tie break over the Blazers (in both the 2 and 3 team tie breaks).

    I really have no idea if the “division leader” rule will be applied for seeding purposes when the regular season ends. I suspect not, but we haven’t had any other official word on the matter other than a comment from Feigen. If someone wants to call a Houston sports radio show and ask this question, I would love word from an official NBA source on the matter.

    The Rest of Wednesday’s Games
    The Jazz finally snapped their 15 game losing streak to winning teams on the road, but could they win 2 in a row? The Dallas Mavericks made that a resounding NO with a thorough butt kicking. The win moves the Mavs into a tie with the Jazz for the #7 seed, although Utah owns the tie break. The Mavs are also only 1 game behind the Hornets with their next two games a home and home with New Orleans. The Mav victory also clinches a Playoff spot for Dallas and eliminates the Suns from the Playoffs so we’re down to the final board of 8. Dirk had 31 points and 7 boards, and Jason Terry scored 21 points off the bench. Deron Williams had 18 points and 12 assists for the Jazz, who lose a Magic Number.

    The Hornets are the most chaotic team in the Western Conference Playoff field. Since their huge victory over the Spurs, they’ve looked mediocre with subpar performances against scrub teams and an awful road team in the Jazz. They did manage a nice win in Miami to start their 7 Games of Peril at 1-1. They hosted a Suns team all but eliminated from the Playoffs and playing for nothing but pride. Which Hornets team would show up? Apparently the bad one. They allowed the Suns to run wild in the second half and win on their home court. The loss all but eliminates the Hornets from home court in the first round and keeps them just a game up on Utah for the #6 seed. Steven Nash had 24 points and 13 assists, and Shaq added 17 points and 11 rebounds for the Suns, who finished their 9 Games of All Doom at 5-4. Chris Paul put up a stellar 29 points and 16 assists, and David West chipped in with 28 points and 12 boards for the Hornets, who lose a Magic Number. The Hornets close with 4 games against Texas teams.

    The Nuggets might have overlooked the Thieves as they focused on tomorrow’s showdown with the Lakers. It nearly caught up with them as the Thieves played them tight and had a lead late in the third quarter. Enver, however, continued their impressive play and picked up their 8th straight win. That game tomorrow night should be interesting as two pretty hot teams collide. I have a feeling the Lakers are going to want a little payback for that shellacking they took in dEnver a few weeks ago, and I’m sure Phil will have them psyched for a showdown with the #2 in a possible WCF preview. Nene had 23 points and 10 rebounds, Chauncey Billups added 18 points and 9 assists, and Carmelo scored 31 for the Nuggets. Kevin Durant had 31 points and 7 rebounds, and Russell Westbrook put up 14 points and 11 assists for the Thieves.

    Going to Cowbell City
    The Rockets return to action for the first game of a back-to-back as they travel to Suckramento. There is no excuse to lose this game. We now control our own destiny to win the division and can move a ½ game up on the Spurs and Blazers to take sole possessions of the #3 seed with a win. The Kings have the worst record in the league, and as long as we play with intensity and modicum of intelligence, we should win this game handily.

    Also on tap for Thursday: Nuggets at Lakers
     
  20. iconoclastic

    iconoclastic Member

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    I'd rather take the 3rd seed than the 2nd seed as it is more likely the Jazz will finish 7th than 6th. Go Enver!!
     

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