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Lull is better defender and better overall player than Beverley

Discussion in 'Houston Rockets: Game Action & Roster Moves' started by 1510 Polk St, Jul 1, 2015.

  1. dram1

    dram1 Member

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    Gracias Polk ... mientras algunos podrían ser un poco amargo, por lo general, apreciamos su opinión optimista. Gracias por su intuicion. Ahora, puede ser posible darnos razones que usted tiene esta opinión con los detalles que usted ha presenciado personalmente que han ayudado a formular esa opinión?
     
  2. dram1

    dram1 Member

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    Thank You Polk...while some might be a bit sour, we generally appreciate your optimistic opinion. Thank you for your insight. Now, can you possibly give us reasons you have this opinion with details you have personally witnessed that have helped formulate that opinion?
     
  3. bmd

    bmd Member

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    I personally think Beverley's defense is overrated. Sure, he's a "good" defender.

    But he seems better than he is because he gives max effort on seemingly every defensive play.

    He pressures the ball relentlessly. And while ball pressure is good, many times it leads to him over-playing and reaching and getting beat.
     
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  4. chenjy9

    chenjy9 Numbers Don't Lie
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    Bev has yet to prove he can sustain being an elite defender throughout the course of a season without getting hurt either. I would argue that PBev as a full time defender is as unproven as Llull. At the very least, he has been slipping each year as he tries to pretend he has skills on offense.
     
  5. JD88

    JD88 Member

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    Since Bev was 2nd team all defense, then you are suggesting Lull would be a first team all defender, possibly DPOY?

    :confused::confused:
     
  6. dram1

    dram1 Member

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    Because he is running around relentlessly through screens and picks, it gives the impression of the tenacious defender. Yes he gets beat...but that pressure plays in the mind of most players and can affect them. So I will take a few of those over-plays for someone that gives 110% on every play. That effort becomes contagious too (although you would not know it by the final score sometimes) for other teammates. Players like Beverly are rare...someone that busts arse like a blue collar worker. He knows he is gonna finish the night with an unimpressive stat line but he shows up and makes an impact. I think we can get this to a degree form Llull. He has a little Beverly in him in that he goes max effort on every play too. You can't teach that. You either have it or not. So I am curious to see how his max effort and athleticism will translate in NBA. I hope it does well...but we gotta sign him first.
     
  7. BONIERO1576

    BONIERO1576 Member

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    Defense can be a zero sum game sometimes. When you're guarding an elite player on a night that he has his stroke, good defense may mean that you held him to 30 on sub 50% shooting without having to throw a double team at him. If you're guarding Steph Curry it may mean you forced him into shots that he is slightly less likely to hit, and he may still hit them. Bev's effort to me is what makes him a top flight defender. You're right about him gambling too much sometimes but compared to Prigs and Terry who barely managed to stay between their player and the basket, I'll take it any day of the week.
     
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  8. bmd

    bmd Member

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    Well of course I'd take Beverley over Terry and Prigioni. I think Beverley is a solid defender. But I think people think of him as an elite defender because they see his tenaciousness on the court... which could, but doesn't always translate into good defense.

    Look at Trevor Ariza. He's not playing guys like a whirling dervish. But he is a better defender than Beverley. He just knows how to play defense effectively.
     
  9. KlutchQT

    KlutchQT Contributing Member

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    Interesting. Not sure I've ever heard anything positive about Llull's defense until today.
     
  10. bmd

    bmd Member

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    Don't get me wrong. I'm not knocking Beverley's hustle. I love it. I wish all players played with his passion and energy.

    I'm just saying that his passion and energy often make him seem more effective than he actually is sometimes.
     
  11. Deckard

    Deckard Blade Runner
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    Real Madrid's MVP, Real Madrid being Llull's championship team, lists Sergio as a point guard. Obviously, they have to be confused. Llull's 4.7-1 assist to turnover rate in the playoffs (yes, he averaged 4.7 assists and 1 turnover per game) has to be a fluke. Perhaps it's a typo on Real Madrid's own website, and on Basketball-Reference. I suggest that you fire off some emails and straighten out an outrageous situation! Real Madrid's MVP, listed by Real Madrid as a point guard, couldn't possibly, even remotely, be any sort of a (gasp!) point guard. That's why Daryl Morey has NO interest in bringing him over.

    Sorry, but I'm getting tired of this mumbo-jumbo about Llull. He can and does play point guard. He also plays shooting guard. He does both very well. That's why Morey wants him, and why he would be so valuable to the Rockets. Is Sergio Llull a better point guard than Pat Beverley? I think he is, and I also think Bev would make a great backup. If we are lucky, we'll be able to find out next season. Oh, and he does play defense. Honest, he does.
     
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  12. dram1

    dram1 Member

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    What is a basketball player (especially when defending the likes of Curry, Paule, and Parker) without passion and energy? Yes, at times it will lead to bad plays...maybe even bad nights...but the team nets a player that can be a defensive cornerstone. And he may "seem" effective because he is the majority of the time.
     
  13. Newlin

    Newlin Member

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    I just wonder how long we have to wait until Llull makes a decision? It's kind of hard to know what needs to be done in regard to free agents if we don't know what Llull wants to do.
     
  14. dram1

    dram1 Member

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    Could you possibly lay some quotes around the opinion you are disagreeing with so it doesn't appear that you are arguing with yourself?:grin:
     
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  15. dram1

    dram1 Member

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    Cue up Jim Grey..."Someone say something about a decision?"
     
  16. Deckard

    Deckard Blade Runner
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    Never! I love arguing with myself. ;-D-

    Hey, could the OP spell Llull's name right in the thread title?
     
  17. Madmanmetz

    Madmanmetz Member
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    It is safe to say Llull is a better offensive play right now than Beverley will ever be, however from what I have seen from both players, Llull will need to prove he can guard elite NBA ball handers and shooters. I've watch a few of his games and I love him but when Beverley is health he is truly a defensive pest. Last year he slipped some due to injuries. Yes sometimes he overplays too but overall Beverley is a plus on the court.

    Llull is a decent defender in Euro league play but that doesn't make him NBA ready. I think he'll get there in time. Even elite college defense player take time in the NBA to develope 2nd team all defensive status.
     
  18. BackNthDay

    BackNthDay Member

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    One day we shall see, but this is Clutch City Texas where the next PG is the best and the last the worst. Can't see Lull checking any of the top PG's in the WCF, let alone NBA.

    Good luck Lull
     
  19. JuanValdez

    JuanValdez Contributing Member

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    Why not have both?
     
  20. Deckard

    Deckard Blade Runner
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    Exactly what I hope happens.
     

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