This is what's funny about us complaining about the Jazz - Battier and Scola flop as much as many of the Jazz do. It irks me, but it seems to be part of the game now. I've even seen Artest do a flop on a play this season that had me laughing hysterically it was so bad. The only guy that routinely gets fouled that I don't see flop very often is Chuck Hayes. He might flop if a bulldozer hit him.
This is a scary post. You should go re-watch those Kirilenko videos from the playoffs - especially the one where a Bobby Jackson 3 was waived off for an off-the-ball pirouhette. Let's get one thing straight - there's flopping, and then there's THAT. As much as I hate Okur, I'd put him in Scola/Battier's range. Kirilenko, not so much. There's also Matt Harpring.
The only thing I want to get straight is there's a flop, and... that's it. If some do a better or worse job trying to act like they've been fouled, it doesn't matter to me. I don't care to what degree it is - it should not be allowed. Aflopisaflopisaflop!
IMO, exaggerating a foul to make sure the refs see it and manufacturing a foul from nothing are NOT the same thing. Kirilenko and Przybilla are definitely the latter kind.
QFT.. DoD, comparing Battier and Scola's flops to the Jazz is pretty absurd.. Scola might flop occasionally, but Battier DOESN'T flop, he occasionally (and rightfully) exaggerates contact/makes it conspicuous so that the 3 blind mice can freaking make a call.. oh, and Durvasa: rewatch the Outlaw play- Battier DID trip over himself on that Outlaw play.. he didn't flop..
I thought that there wasnt enough contact from Outlaw to warrant an embellishment. If Battier tripped himself up then I have no problems with that play. Battier and Scola are embellishers, not floppers. Some players flop, some flop and embellish, some just embellish. Battier and Scola are embellishers, since most of their flops are on block/charge situation where the rulebooks say you pretty much need to fall down. The Jazz routinely flop on picks, rebounds that they clearly have no chance at, and general aggressive defense. Remember AK47 dropping pretending he got hit in the eye by Battier's hand?? Scola doesnt flop when playing post defense. Battier doesnt flop when playing post defense.
So which is it? I told you, I'm not comparing. I consider a flop a flop. If it didn't cause you to fall, don't fall. "Exaggerates contact" is a weak excuse to me. How about if I exaggerate "no contact"? How do you judge how much exaggeration is too much? I mean come on. I love Scola's game and he's probably my favorite player on the team right now, but his flops make me cringe. And so do Battier's "exaggerated contact gravitational vertical collapses" or whatever the heck we're calling them now to avoid dubbing them flops.
Personally - I don't see a difference in kind between flopping and "embelllishing" - I just want it to stop. I'd rather lose and not cheat than cheat and win.
Flopping works and it's part of the game so just cut it out. Luis is a veteran player and the most experienced one when it comes to playoff situations. Oh! he's also a born leader and a fundamentally sound player who improves every game. Compare his defense now with any he showed last year or even this year against the Blazers and it's wannabe superstar Aldridge.
If not for that part in the rulebook about having to fall down to get the call I would agree with you. But our defense is a positioning based defense so if we are there the call should go in our favor. But if we dont fall down, the call wouldn't be made.
I feel like there is 3 levels... 1) "The Good Battier" - Hitting the floor when you draw a legitimate charge, even if the force of the impact does not throw you down. Part of this I'm sure it to draw the official's attention, and part is to lessen the pain of the impact. I'm fine with this. 2) "The Evil Battier" - Going to the floor when there is almost no impact in an attempt to draw a charge that isn't there. I see the officials call a lot of charges on plays like this, where the defender's feet are clearly not set, they are moving laterally during the impact, and the offensive player IS NOT out of control. The NBA needs to find a way to call this properly. I'm not OK with this and Battier is guilty of it at least one time a game. 3) "The Utah Jazz Special" - An offensive player runs past a defensive player before the ball crosses half court, the defender sticks their shoulder out to bump the offensive player (or maybe there is no contact at all), and then the defender throws their arms into the air and hits the floor. This is what we love to hate. The Utah Jazz do it regularly, and so do Scola and Pryzbilla. Disgusting. Scola drew the first foul of Game 3 on Aldridge with a completely bogus flop like this.
I agree, although I don't think Scola is in the same "Flopping League" as almost the entire Utah team. What bugs me the most is that the player is laying on the floor, instead of being on his feet, playing.
Might as well make a thread titled "Doggie, por favor, no me gusta el butt-sniffing." Scola is Argentinian, he cannot help with the flopping.
I have to agree it's kind of embarrassing to see Scola pulling a Jazz sometimes, since we've been killing other teams flopping all the time. Battier embellishing sometimes, but I don't consider him a flopper. And what about the players scream like they just got stab in their butt driving to the basket, even when they are no contacts at all? Are you guys sick of Roy's little scream the last few game yet?
Yeah, Scola needs to cut down on the flopping, too. ... It's rubbing off on Battier and Artest, too. Battier was always a little bit of a flopper, but not this bad.
Fair enough. I guess I just believe that some flops are so bad that they're ruining the game. There's selling a call, and then there's raping the respectability of a game. IMO.
I want Luis and Battier to stop it immediately. A flop is a flop. The difference with the Jazz is that they flop even when there is no contact at all.
