Luis Garcia's injury might have been a blessing in disguise

If they just wanted a little extra time to warm someone up, they didn't have to bring in Odorizzi there. There was zero reason for them to have him warm up like that if they didn't think Garcia had a real injury.

A mechanical issue that puts pressure on your knee and prevents you from throwing with full effort/control is quite a bit different than a muscle strain in your forearm/elbow. Garcia wasn't injured in a sense that he had damaged something structurally or had a muscle tear, but there is no reason to doubt he had pain in his knee that was affecting his performance and the Astros didn't know what was causing it or how serious it was.

All that being said, Odorrizi's innings wound up being important by keeping the bullpen fresh enough to allow the bullpen to keep game 4 winnable. He didn't pitch well, but staying in the game as long as he did despite not being a reliever was an underrated part of the ALCS victory.

 

No one was warming because they were not intending to have to bring a reliever in in the second inning. Once Garcia walked the first guy, Maldonado called out the trainer. It was determined that Garcia's knee was concerning so they replaced him.

They could have brought in a reliever who wouldn't have used the 'long toss' that Jake did, and could have warmed up quicker, but all that would have done as @Major pointed out was to use that reliever in the second inning rather than in the 6th or 7th.

Nothing sneaky, nothing nefarious, nothing planned.

 

For the 2017 Astros, I don't think you can really put Morton on that list. Morton was solid that year and obviously pitched amazing in relief in Game 7, but he didn't really break out to be the guy he is now until 2018. If you are going to put Morton up there, you'd need to put McCullers as well (they alternated Games 3/4 in the ALCS and WS and both pitched as tandem starters in game 7 of the ALCS and WS, so combined they were like 1.5 starters).

I think the 2017 Astros won because they had depth at starting pitching that allowed some creative use with the bullpen and tandem starters They only won 2 of the 4 games started by Keuchel and Verlander and neither got a win in the series. Over the course of the season Peacock was the third best pitcher (in terms of ERA+ and WAR). So there were two guys who were well above everyone else: Keuchel, Verlander and then a lot of pitchers in the next tier (Lance, McHugh, Peacock, Morton).

Interesting stat to make of what you will: Fiers lead the team in innings pitched that year.

 

I have zero hard data to back this up (although there’s soft data like the list I posted above) but I think having established ToR SP in the rotation has an impact that exceeds their individual performances in the games they pitch. I don’t think there is any chance whatsoever that the Astros win in 2017 without Verlander. The winning % for those starts might not back it up but for example the additional innings they tend to eat in playoff games leaves the bullpen fresher for the other games. And there’s just a confidence/intimidation factor in play when teams know they’re facing Verlander. Same goes for Kershaw, Scherzer, and Sale, among others. I just don’t think it’s coincidence that most WS winning teams have a pitcher of that reputation on their staff.

 

I'm not disagreeing with that. Just saying the Astros only had 2, not 3 and their pitching depth was also just important as the two top guys. I don't think they win without having both.

 

First you say there was zero reason, then acknowledge a reason.

Those statements are contradictory. Pick one side or the other

@Major believes there was zero reason to pitch Odorizzi unless he went 8 innings.

- Seven bull guys pitched the previous day
- Garcia was ineffective from first pitch
- nobody was warming

Game 2 was the perfect scenario for faking injury and long relief

But I know.... all you guys are 1000% certain everything was legit

 

What exactly is the contradiction? I said there was zero reason to have him warm up on the field unless if they didn't think he was hurt. I didn't say there was zero reason for Odorizzi to pitch in the game.

The innings he pitched wound up being valuable don't contradict the previous statement. If they didn't think Garcia was hurt someone else could have come in an Odorizzi could have pitched later in the game as @bobrek already pointed out.

He also lost 3 mph on his fastball in between innings and put a man on base before they brought in Odorizzi. Was that part of this plan too? If they didn't think there was an injury this was a stupid plan given they could have let Odorizzi take as long as he needed to warm up and come in for a clean inning.

 

If warming on the field is so bad and a clean start for Odorizzi means so much, why didn't they just use a regular reliever?

Every pitcher gets time to warm after injury

But that's my point. Seven guys were already used the previous game and we were already down 4 runs in the 2nd inning.

Perfect time to fake an injury

 

But a clean start for Odorizzi means so much

 

So... what was the point of the Astros faking Garcia's injury after he faced one batter in the 2nd inning? What were they hoping to accomplish?

 

So your point is they faked an injury by telling Garcia to throw his fastball 3 mph slower and put a man on base just so they could have Odorizzi (who was intended to start Game 4) warm up on the mound instead of the bullpen in the middle of an inning? How exactly does that make sense?

Edit: Were they also running the long con and had Garcia lose effectiveness in his previous starts as well so he could say after the game his knee had been bothering him off an on?

 

Because it's dumb and makes no sense. No one was warming up because they weren't planning to pull Garcia, especially after the previous day's nightmare. They didn't suddenly change their mind after one not-too-surprising walk. If they thought they might pull him if he put a baserunner on, they'd have had someone warming already. Instead, they took the worst possible option and put in a pitcher in a scenario he wasn't comfortable in. If it WAS intentional, it was extraordinarily dumb.

 

They were hoping Garcia would get outs. When the leadoff batter reached, they gave up on him.

 

Again, if warming on the field is so terrible, they would've used a regular reliever.

How fast was Garcia throwing from 1st inning to 2nd?

 

It's extraordinarily dumb to remove a struggling starter and attempt to save your bullpen?

If you say so

Stros were already down 4 runs. Odorizzi's comfort level doesn't mean much

 

So... that being the case, why wouldn't they have someone simply warming up to start the inning if they were going to remove him after a runner reached?

Your fake injury theory makes absolutely no sense.

Did they tell Maldy to go to the mound and call out the trainer at the first sign of early trouble? Was Garcia in on the scheme? How about Correa?

 

No one was warming because they already used seven guys the day before.

Maldy could very well have been in on it. Makes it appear more real to the umps

 

How impactful can the performances of Framber and García be in the coming days?

The difference between winning and losing the title? And a title (… and the associated preside, $$$, legacy of Altuve and Correa) could be the difference between retaining or letting Correa go? The shift in perception of them as MOR pitchers to possibly SP2 or SP1’s could also impact asset allocation and whether to sign Correa?

There is so much at stake in the next week or two…

… Official status as a Dynasty and the respect of MLB (players; screw the media, but them too)

… Correa’s future and the run of this legendary infield? (I mean, if we win the title, can Crane justify not paying Correa basically whatever it takes?)

… Dusty’s HOF Status? I would argue, Brent Storm’s HOF status?

… hours and hours, days and weeks of us fans basking in the title, post game commentary, articles, memorabilia, parades, and all the other awesome crap that comes with winning the title. WE WANT IT ALL!!!!!!!!!!!

 

His fastball went from 94-95 to 91-92 between the first and second.

The second grand slam is way put things out of reach, so I’d say Odorrizi’s comfort level mattered (in addition to putting his health at risk). I don’t understand how you think faking an injury would be a smart move, so I think we’ll have to agree to disagree on this one.