Luhnow Interview on Sign Stealing Scandal

Also haven't heard much from Aiken's agent, Casey Close, since then either. He was the one out front aghast at the Astros and Luhnow.

Looks like he represents Freddie Freeman who also ran into issues negotiating a deal with the Braves before signing with the Dodgers.

 

Ed Wade had left a stable of quality players, problem is that mostly none were too aware how good they’d be. Altuve, JD Martinez, Keutchel, Springer, etc. Those guys were MVP and Cy Young worthy. The Astros blew it royally giving up on JD Martinez, but it seems they learned from that mistake. I’m only glad I wasn’t the GM because I desperately wanted Delino DeShields to take over 2nd base, and trade Altuve for some relief pitching. Fact is that Ed Wade did a great job in Houston, but he was a McClane guy, and Crane wanted his own guy. Proof in that once the sale of the Astros was approved by MLB on November 26, 2011, then poor Ed Wade was let go a mere two days later. I was upset that Ed Wade was let go, because he started building a Farm system, which had been neglected for years by Drayton McClane.

I think the value of Luhnow was that he was quick at cutting his losses and keeping an open mind about unheralded prospects. The farm system stayed competitive, and everyone knew that they had a real opportunity if they preformed. Willing to admit Francis Martes was the top prospect, even over his #1 pick Appel, was a real message to the guys in the farm system, that performance mattered, and not just pedigree.

I am excited about the work Click is doing, but can he keep the excellence going?

 

He was smart enough to trade Cosart for a kind ransom.

Obviously you don't understand the art of team building and the fact that Luhnow and Click were/are in totally different situations.

It remains to be seen how well Click does. So far he's done a decent job of riding Luhnows coattails. He hasn't really added anything of value, but he hasn't really done anything to terribly screwup what Luhnow built.

 

I wonder what Gretchen Carlson is up to these days?

 

The fact that you can post this unironically is the height of comedy.

Almost everybody here realizes the two GM's were handed different scenarios and are judging them accordingly, you are the only one that doesn't seem to realize that. One guy was expected to prioritize winning while tending the farm without high picks, the other had carte blanche to ignore the major league team solely compile prospects (plenty of major f**k ups too) in addition to the ones he inherited.

 

Difference is one guy was the best GM in MLB. The other we can only hope gets better at his job.

 

Bingo.

 

I think Luhnow and Click are the best in the business and we are lucky that we were able to replace one with the other. Just like Correa and Pena. Crane made probably the best hire he could have made when we lost Luhnow. I still can't believe he got scapegoated when he was probably the least involved. That's the part I still can't piece together. Why Luhnow? Did people around the league hate him that much?

 

Yes, they did hate him that much. Look at what they were willing to do to get rid of him. Not only the Drellich/Footer's of the world. But MLB and ownership too, people don't like others that are singularly focused on doing everything possible to be the best in their fields. They don't like change and Luhnow was changing the way talent was evaluated, cutting the number of farm teams and long time scouts etc...

When Luhnow became successful that scared others in MLB, because it was costing them money and status quo went out the window. As far as the media goes Drellich got the Stros rebuild wrong and the media doesn't like to be wrong. Footer is who she's always been. An activist.

I hope Click becomes as good as Luhnow was. I haven't seen anything so far to make me think he will be. He's very conservative and not much of a risk taker. But hey, I've been wrong before. As long as Click's the GM the Stros will never be bad. They just won't be as good as they could have been.

 

Not that all this isn't entirely plausible (I imagine it is), but do we have anything other than anecdotal evidence for these conclusions?

 

Everybody but Luhnow is back in MLB. There's your evidence. Google what Luhnow was doing to cut the number of minor league teams.

 

That evidence is anecdotal. Not denying it's evidence--but it's anecdotal. You have parallel facts, and you're assuming the motive (not an unreasonable assumption). But do we have any sources that spell it out? Any quotes?

 

Facts speak just as well, if not better than quotes.

 

At some point you can apply logic to a situation. If all of a sudden nobody is willing to sign mike trout, wouldn’t you think there was SOME reason for not wanting the best player in the league? This is no different, he has been blackballed 100%

 

But you are giving an interpretation of these facts--an interpretation which is based greatly on an assumption of motive. The evidence is entirely anecdotal, and there are plenty of other logical, as the other poster puts it, assumptions as to the motives of the people in play here.

It's a far cry from proof. It's a believable assumption, but that's all it is.

 

The problem with labeling "facts" is the circular logic by the labeler.

ie He is guilty because he hasn't been hired v he hasn't been hired because he was labeled.

My own BIAS is that he was doing what the league was already doing only better.This was his pattern. Use technology to identify pitch selection advantages, international players, exaggerated fielding shifts, etc.

Those who cry the loudest have no problem with their own ineffective cheating.

I prefer a clean game, but baseball has never been any cleaner than MLB politics.

 

Would you say Luhnow who was the best GM in MLB and doesn't currently have a job, while everyone else involved has a job has been blackballed?

Nobody is going to come out and say he's been blackballed. Look at the Kaepernick situation, he got blackballed and nobody has come out and said he's blackballed either. The kind of proof you want hasn't and never will exist.

 

If people were colluding to keep him out, conversations would surface. Another plausible conclusion (no more plausible than yours, mind you, but still plausible) is that there was some fire behind the smoke of complaints about Luhnow's work culture, how ppl didn't like him in StL either, and how he made enemies both in the media and other front offices, and basically no one wants to hire him because he's a giant dick. I hope that's not the case, because he's still the best GM we've ever had and I'd like to see him continue to succeed. But it's possible.

 

So nobody wants to hire the guy that was considered the best GM in MLB,

Ok

BTW, those teams deserve to continue to lose. What has STL won since Luhnow left? This is another case of putting feelings over the ultimate goal of winning championships. Luhnow might have been hated by some in the Cards org, but he was talented enough that the Cards org was willing to commit a federal crime to steal his draft memos. That speaks volumes.