Role players i grew attached to: Sura, Barry, Deke, JHo. Role players I didn't get attached to: Wesley, James. Those first four guys made the game fun to watch again. They made the game exciting; I wanted to root for them. Wesley and James helped us win games, that's it. And if they help us win games by getting traded for better players, then I'm all for it.
Roxgirl, I agree with you in general terms. I would love to see Bobby and David get rings with the Rox. Personally, with a signing of someone like Stoudemire, I think we would be set for the first half of the season, after which our expiring contracts (Baker, Mooch, Ward) can be packaged for a player who needs to leave his current team for new places, much like Baron Davis and Chris Webber did at the trade deadline. I say sign Mighty Mouse and then stand pat until the trade deadline unless Portland is willing to SnT Stoudemire in a package deal with Derek Anderson. For that deal, I would include James, Wesley, or Sura because of what DA brings to the table.
Sura signed a 4 yr 14.4M contract in Aug of 04....just how do you get 10M last year from that? Now I *know* you are crazy. There aint anyone in this league I would trade Tmac for now that he has shown his desire to win and abilities on this team.
there is noone worthy of a T-mac trade. unless your a dip**** a la weisbrod. and the only reason i would support a trade of any of last years starters is because the potential of our frontline is so much greater with a good assist man like phoenix.
i know this is all a business and whatnot, and i know we gotta improve our backcourt (athleticism, youth, etc), but i really hope we don't end up having to give up the heart of our team from last year. guys like Sura and Barry were the soul of the team, gave us an attitude/toughness that would be sorely missed. and besides...who'll be left to flash those dirty 3pter signs if these guys get traded?
I agree that loyalty comes second to success. Hence, the reverse is true as well. Just as organizations choose money and success over loyalty, players are entitled to do the same. We as fans should try to be more understanding when a player tries to get the most they can. We would do the same thing. We always get on players, but we never get on owners. Leslie Alexander is a very successful and fiscally responsible businessman and owner, but nobody would confuse him for Mark Cuban(spending wise). You can bet for example, that if Cuban was the Rockets owner, he would not hesitate to sign Swift to something bigger than the MLE. While we are fortunate that Swift chose to take a little less to become a Rocket(big ups), shouldn't we object to Alexander not wanting to spend a dollar over the salary cap if we need an additional piece that can push us over the top? Roxgirl is right. We demand loyalty when the word "loyalty" doesn't exist in the shrewd business world. If any of us found a better paying job, we would quit the current job no matter how "good" our employer was to us.
WTF? JVG has loyalty to whoever is cutting him the biggest check--in the present situation it's the Rockets. He is remorseful that he quit on the Knicks, but he's "loyal" to them? Van Gundy kicked the Knicks to the curb and left them for dead. They haven't recovered since
I've always felt the same as roxgirl. The fans who speak so disrespectfully of players ... who have poured their heart and soul into every game ... are prob some of the same who demand unwavering loyalty from the players.
This is a nice thread. As far as loyalty on sports teams goes, I think it's important to go both ways but there is a limit. It really plays a part for players who have played their whole careers for a team or city, i.e. Bagwell, Biggio, Hakeem. But in pro sports with salary caps and roster limits, the 1st priority is putting togteher a winning team. For teams that are looking to take the next step like the Rockets, it involves making a few changes, and these are usually gonna involve the non-essential players like Sura & Wesley who make contributions but are not ideal fits. Whenever possible, if we're gonna trade or cut a player, we should allow them the opportunity to be put into a good situation if possible. Trading a solid guy like Jimmy Jackson to a team like NO last year seemed a little hurtful but it worked out well for him. It killed me when Hakeem left for Toronto, but he wanted to be well-paid in his last years, and we rightly could not commit to that much money for a declining player. As fans, what we can do is show appreciation to ex-players that get traded away (i.e Hakeem, Francis, Mobley). Personally, once a player plays for Houston, I try to cheer for them wherever they may go as long as they're not playing us & they don't turn on us (like Pippen).
You're spot on about the limits, especially with sports. The bottom line is this is a business and all players, even those on the minimum, are making huge salaries to essentially play a game & have fun (unless you're on the Clippers cause they suck or the Jazz cause fun is illegal in Utah). While I expect loyalty to me from my employer, and visa versa, there are always valid reasons for players/teams to part ways. I know if I don't perform to the required standard, I'll get fired. And if an employer doesn't treat me well, I'll have no regrets leaving them. That said, I believe we owe it to Sura, Deke & Barry to keep/resign them. They invested their own EMOTIONAL CAPITAL into the team, played beyond expectations & while not the box score leaders, they are/were the heart & soul of this team. Apart from Yao & T-mac, I don't care what CD/JVG do, as long as those 3 players are "looked after" (ie. re-signed or traded to a team that's good for them). I'm thankful the Rox are known as a team that normally looks after their players. There have been many instances where CD & RT went and did the job hunting for players they weren't resigning or had waived (Bullard to Charlette is one example where they lobbied Charlotte to sign him). I'd have great difficulties supporting a team with "nasty" management/ownership. Once a Rocket, always a Rocket (except for Quitten). Cassell & Horry are still amongst my favorite players, and I always check the box scores to see how they're going. I think Cat will eventually be in the same category, though I think you need at least a season of seperation to get the true feeling for them. I don's have the same love for players that demanded/said much but didn't deliver. I'm one of those weird people for whom salary is not the most important factor in a job; happiness & satisfaction are. While I don't claim I wouldn't jump ship for a "can't refuse" offer, it would have to be quite extreme to get me to move (I've had many v good paying jobs as a software engineer, but **** conditions & low satisfaction. I am now earning less whlie not working as a SE, but am happier, so I'm pleased with the change).
I'm loving the discussion here! I know I'm mainly speaking of last years roster, b/c they just seemed to really become a part of Houston in such a short time. All this discussion, has trickled into the Francis and Mobley talk, and that made me sad too. I am like most on here, in that I support them where ever they go, b/c of the circumstances they left. The worst is of course Hakeem That's just a shame, but what can you do if he's demanding more than you're willing to pay? I don't know the numbers, but was Hakeem asking WAY too much? It's like the Astros saying, naw, Bagwell/Biggio, you guys are going to have to finish your careers somewhere else... Olajuwon is regarded as one of the greatest, if not the greatest, Rockets of all time. Although we can't strip him of that, his being traded slightly taints all of that. I'm sure this discussion took place before I began posting here, but it just brought up sour memories. On that note...I miss Posey too
I miss Posey... didn't want to let him go. our starter at SF now is pretty good too though. The guys from last year that i thought truly deserve to come back to this team are Barry and Deke. I like Sura's heart, but his inability to pass into the post kills me. I wouldn't mind trading him. Mike James... tough call. He's got heart but i'm not sure he has brains. May as well trade him if we lose him for nothing at the end of next season. Wesley? I like his defense, but having him as our best perimeter defender is a tad distressing. perhaps we should talk about this over se... er... drinks...
