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Lovie Smith Fired

Discussion in 'Houston Texans' started by Htown Legend, Jan 8, 2023.

  1. Hey Now!

    Hey Now! Contributing Member

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    [sorry; double post]
     
    #501 Hey Now!, Jan 12, 2023
    Last edited: Jan 12, 2023
  2. HillBoy

    HillBoy Contributing Member

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    Correct. Again this was not a case of racism but one of hubris and power. Culley was hired because he wasn't qualified for the position which made him perfect for Caserio's plans i.e. maintain total control. He was also the perfect fall guy to take the heat off Cal & Nick. If you recall, the narrative when he was hired explicitly ignored his lack of qualifications (remember Nick's "get some coffee" presser). This didn't get discussed until after the season ended and he was sent packing because he couldn't handle the position which came as a shock to nobody with a brain stem.
     
    a time to chill likes this.
  3. Hey Now!

    Hey Now! Contributing Member

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    Not all racism has to feature white hoods & burning crosses. For a room full of white men to not recognize - twice! - the racial implications of hiring Black head coaches to take the fall for your own incompetence is racist. Granted, it's not "1960s Mississippi" racist - but it is undoubtedly promulgating institutional racism in which the better opportunities go the the white candidates.

    No, the Texans should not have hired either man. They were, by resume, terrible choices. But, as Black candidates, they brought to the table a separate consideration that the Texans never bothered to consider, and *that* is what is problematic and why they are getting rightly roasted for their decision-making.
     
    Major and DasouthDakota like this.
  4. Buck Turgidson

    Buck Turgidson Mineshaft Enthusiast

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    I think if yall spend another 4 days talking around in circles you'll finally get to the bottom of all this.
     
  5. HillBoy

    HillBoy Contributing Member

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    Exactly! It was the "smartest guys in the room" mindset that got them into this mess. Nick's actions created this narrative and now the Texans will have to deal with it going forward.
     
  6. Major

    Major Member

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    None of these things go together. First off, the preseason Over/Under for the Texans was 3.5 wins. They were never winning 6 or 7. People say that the roster is devoid of talent and is the worst roster in football... but if one guy was used correctly, they'd have won 6 or 7 games? If using him differently would generate 3-4 wins, that would make him the single best non-QB player in the NFL.

    Also, the team is so bad that they should wait for the inevitable top pick next year (even with a good coach) and wait to pick a QB then ... but also, with Lovie, they could have won 6 or 7 this year.

    Finally, so it's bad that Lovie didn't win enough games to keep his job. But also bad that he did so well and won games and cost them the #1 pick. This is exactly what Flores' lawsuit is all about.
     
    HillBoy likes this.
  7. STR8Thugg

    STR8Thugg STR8Thugg Member
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    Jim Tomsula wasn’t going to be a coach anywhere else either.
     
    raining threes likes this.
  8. STR8Thugg

    STR8Thugg STR8Thugg Member
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    I don’t need to explain the context there. You can figure it out. The bottom line is if he won 6-7 games and the Texans weren’t putting up 5 yards of offense in a half then he wouldn’t have been fired.
     
    raining threes likes this.
  9. STR8Thugg

    STR8Thugg STR8Thugg Member
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    They should have just hired Josh McClown and fired him after 1 year according to your logic, you know, to avoid this nonsense.
     
    raining threes and whag00 like this.
  10. Nick

    Nick Contributing Member

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    And I suppose you’re going to die on this hill… and even then, he was considered to have more upside and potential than David Culley and had been on that staff for more than 5 years having served under 2 HC's.

    His "promotion" may have been more similar to Lovie Smith's.... even then, the 49ers weren't dumb enough to do it twice and make the mistake both times of making minority HC's out to be fall guys.
     
    #510 Nick, Jan 12, 2023
    Last edited: Jan 12, 2023
  11. Hey Now!

    Hey Now! Contributing Member

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    Here's the problem... they *wanted* Josh McCown. I do not believe they would have fired McCown after a single season, or even two seasons. He was the guy they *wanted.* Dump all of Culley's and Smith's issues on McCown.. they would've explained those away: he's young, learning; he'll get better, etc. Short a full-blown player revolt, I don't believe there's any chance McCown wouldn't have gotten multiple years.
     
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  12. Major

    Major Member

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    He wasn't given a team that could win 6-7 games.

    Absolutely they could have done that. They could also avoid being mocked if they tried to hire a coach that, you know, is remotely qualified.
     
    HillBoy likes this.
  13. STR8Thugg

    STR8Thugg STR8Thugg Member
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    No he didn’t. He career resume was worse than Culley’s.
     
    raining threes likes this.
  14. STR8Thugg

    STR8Thugg STR8Thugg Member
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    The Giants are a team that shouldn’t have won 9 games.

    I agree they should have hired a better coach. No argument here. Ultimately if we get the right guy this year then the last 2 years won’t matter.
     
    raining threes likes this.
  15. STR8Thugg

    STR8Thugg STR8Thugg Member
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    I agree with most of that. I don’t see the problem if that’s who they wanted.

    If they hire demeco and we win 3 games he isn’t getting fired either. This really isn’t that difficult.

    They hired both Culley and Lovie fully understanding the ridiculousness of the situation. If they overperformed, or in Culley’s case, acted anything like a HC, they would have gotten more time.

    Bc of how bad the situation was they were not able to hire a true long term solution. Any of the better options were still likely going to be stop gaps until the situation improved. That doesn’t mean the bridge coaches couldn’t have changed the narrative.

    We’re just going in circles, and we’re never going to agree. It’s fine. If you can’t figure out how complex the situation is, then idk what to tell you. In 2020 they were fresh on the heels of the Deshaun trade demand. If you don’t think that handicapped them in the hiring process then again, idk what to tell you. In 2021 Deshaun was still on the roster, there was still no resolution to that. It was a slightly better situation, but still really bad. Brian Flores, Easterby, etc etc etc.

    I’m not absolving the Texans of any guilt in putting themselves in that trash situation, but the situation existed nonetheless. While I agree they could have landed on a better option then lovie, that’s what they decided. It’s was a bad choice, but it’s not like Mike McDaniel or far superior options were walking through the door.

    Again, by this logic they should have hired a white coach since it was a bad situation and it’s “bad optics” to give that situation to a minority HC. If you do, “then you shouldn’t fire him after one year regardless of results.” That’s ridiculous. Do you think David Culley feels that way? Do you really think Lovie feels that way? I’m sure they would have wanted more time, but without the Texans David Culley is never a HC in the NFL. Never. Without the Texans Lovie would have never had another opportunity to be a HC. They were beneficiaries, it’s really that simple.
     
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  16. Nick

    Nick Contributing Member

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    That’s exactly what a fall guy is… set up to fail. THAT is how simple it is.
     
  17. raining threes

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    Yet Culley won more games with less talent than Lovie did.
     
  18. Nick

    Nick Contributing Member

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    He was already on the team… that immediately made him more qualified.

    Just like Pep Hamilton is currently more qualified than David Culley.
     
  19. raining threes

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    Bowles and McDaniel were hired to pretty good siuations last offseason.

    I'm sure a long time assistant coach like Culley is truly enjoying the 22 million dollar buyout, as will Lovie.

    One things for sure if white owners ever get tired of being called racists when they need to fire black HC's there's a way to rectify this situation and I wouldn't blame owners if they chose to avoid the controversy of Flores and the heat the McNair's are currently taking.
     
  20. raining threes

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    Lovie was a Cal hire.
     

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