Hey Clutch, speaking of this, I think it is time to start up the bizarro-lotto-recaps again. Those are fresh. I know it's more work, but hell, I'd be glad to help.
wrong. david robinson was not injured. david robinson was sitting out and the spurs were tanking. i played in a pro-am league with one of the spurs players (at that time) - lloyd daniels. anyway...dominique wilkins was at the games regularly (he was on that spurs roster). he said it himself - "dave could have played", but it was not in the franchise's best interest that he did play. so, enough talk about the spurs not tanking. they did. 100% tank job. P.S. i have NO problem with what the spurs did (tanking). morals have absolutely nothing to do with winning and losing.
Clutch is absolutely right, since we cant sign any good free agents for the next 3-4 years the only way we can improve ourself is by drafting another superstar, I know you are thinking that losing games is bad but next year even if we are going to be healthy, getting into the playoffs won't be easy because that there are other teams better than us , that would also fight to get into the playoffs like the Clippers (they are going to get 2 lottery picks ) . Look at the teams in the West : Dallas ,Sacramento,Lakers, Minnesota,Spurs and Portland are going to be in the playoffs without a sweat and you got other teams like the Clippers (give them a great coach and they are in the playoffs ) , Phoenix (Marbury,Johnson,Penny,Marion ) a team with a great future and there is Utah (i hate them but they are good enough to get into the playoffs ) and Seattle is also a decent team that could sneak into the playoffs . My point is without another superstar , that we could only get from the draft our future is not so bright , and unfortunely this season is over and we have no chance to get into the playoffs so like Clutch said before let the young guys get their minutes and dont play Cat and Stevie too much they need to rest and recover.I see myself as a true Rockets fan and i hate losing but I've got the look forward and think about the future , i think that we are only one superstar away from the playoffs/winning a championship we need those ping pong balls do get better so i support Cluth argument .
That's what I thought happened there. The Spurs took advantage of a golden opportunity and Robinson realized that the more they tanked, the better their chances weer of landing a great player in the draft.
There is no tim Duncan in this draft. Who's better Michael Olowokandi or Cuttino Mobley and Ruben Patterson. I know there were better players than mobley taken, but i am just trying to illustrate that the number 1 pick can be bust just as the number 41 pick can be a gem. The Rockets were able to get francis without sucking. So the objective of the Rockets should be to win. And if Steve is Franchise player why would the Rockets need a high lottery pick. Heck, Paul Pierce dropped all the way to 10.
Clutch, the Toronoto pick is a SURE DEAL!!! Les Alexander stated, a while back, that he knew they would not make the playoffs and were expecting 2 first round picks next year. "I cringe everytime the Rockets win, and I am happy everytime Toronoto looses (that could be a 14-16 pick)!!!!" Rudy (or CD) should be fired if he continues to play Francis & Mobley 40+ minutes. This is a great time to get our younger players some extra minutes, and see if Collier & Langhi belong in the NBA, or not!!
I know for a fact from a Spurs players that San Antonio tanked the year Robinson got hurt. It was obvious. Walt is starting his yearly drill by freestroking his shot when the pressure off and nothing to lose. Totally agree with your post Clutch.
Francis_Rules, you took the words right out of my mouth (except about the one superstar away from winning the championship part). We definitely need to play the other guys more, ESPECIALLY MOOCHIE. We need to see if he can learn and is coachable or if he needs a new home far away, although I'm starting to lean towards the latter. I believe Eddie, Oscar, and Terrence could really benefit from more time on the job. The only way we're gonna get better is through the draft, so why ruin it? It's a win-win situation.
More and more, it's becoming obvious that we will not pick 2 players in next year's draft. We might not even need one if we aren't able to unload Rice or Mo T. Now the question is, how good our packaged picks is. Rate these out of 10, I'd especially like to hear opinions from other team's fans: #6, #15, Kenny Thomas, Rice #6, #15, Kenny Thomas, Mo T #6, #15, Mo T #6, #15, Kenny Thomas, Moochie Norris (Atlanta comes to mind) #6, #15, Rice #6, #15, KT, Mooch (Clippers come to mind) #6, #15, Mooch Out of 10? Are the Clippers looking to even get younger? They certainly won't take Mo T, because of their cheapskate owner. So maybe they take Rice and "expect" him to retire after one season? Kt and Mooch would provide excellent depth. Unfortunately, the Sonics, more than the Clippers, are the ones looking to get younger. Thoughts and ratings please...Thank you...
Clutch, One thing jumped out at me in the post, and that's Glenn Robinson. He's one of my favorite players, but I hadn't heard that he was on the block in Milwaukee, and I certainly hadn't heard of any interest on the part of the Rockets. Was that just pure speculation on your part, or are the Bucks actually talking to teams about moving him in the offseason? He would be a great fit here...
Guys, unless I completely misunderstand, Clutch never said anything about "LOSING ON PURPOSE" per se. All he said is, why focus so much on trying to scrape out a few wins, when at this stage of the season, due to a lot of bad luck, we really don't have a shot at the playoffs! We're playing Steve and Cuttino into the dirt, and absolutely everything still flows through them. So people who NEED the experience, like Griffin, are languising behind the 3 point line waiting for an outlet pass, when they could be developing their game, and looking to the future. As long as these guys are playing hard, learning from real time experience, then we're making excellent use of this time, even if we'll win a few less games. It's much much better for the longrun. The silver lining is that we get a better and better pick the more games we lose. BUT, I think that Clutch would be JUST AS HAPPY, or maybe HAPPIER, if we did what he proposed (playing the young guys more) and we started winning more! So don't think of this as deliberate tanking, it's just developing the team. And we sorely sorely need that.
Cat- See Here The thought is that Tim Thomas is ready to take over at SF. I agree with Clutch. It's time to go into learning mode. It's time to see if Jason Collier and Tierre Brown are NBA players. It's time for Griffin to get steady minutes, and be given touches down low-see if he can work that jump hook into his game repertoire. It's time to experiment-try out new offensive sets, or tinker with pseudo-zones and matchup zones. Throw Moochie's iso out the window. Give Cuttino and Steve some days off. Look at Shaq-in a game without Kobe, he played under 35 minutes.
People who need more minutes: Cato Griffin Torres Tierre T-Mo Collier Give Kevin Willis a rest. Cut down the starters' minutes. Make Griffin play more inside, while working extensively on his ball-handling and strength in practice. BTW, any chance Griffin will go to the Big Man Camp this offseason? I'd love it if Cato went too, but I think mostly young players go right? I'd love to see Griffin, Collier, and Mo T go. Mo T needs to learn how to play bigger.
Just because he was sitting out doesnt mean they were tanking. I imagine the players actually on the court were trying real hard, given the teams attitude, to actually win games. It is analgous to our situation with Mo. It may be why we shouldnt bring back a healthy Mo, except to serve his suspension, this year (I know, i know, Mo Taylor is nothing compared to how much D-Rob meant to his team). But it isnt analagous to us deciding not to play Francis or Mobley anymore (or even only playing them 20 mpg). I don't doubt they were keeping a healthy Robinson from playing. But I do doubt that they had instructions/orders to just go out there and see if they could lose. I have no problem making moves to keep next season in mind and forget about this season. I just dont think cutting back on Steve or Cuttino's minutes, or even giving T-Mo or Torres that many more minutes will help us next year (even given the positive effect it may have on our draft position). Disclaimer: all that said, i would love to have a top 3 pick and the opportunity at a player like Yao MIng.
When you intentionally sit out your best player (I think their second best player, Sean Elliot was out as well), that is tanking. The players may try hard, but the organization is in tank mode. Didn't Milwaukee do that with Glen Robinson?
Since sports and cliches go together so well... Winners never quit and quitters never win. I'll paraphrase my first post, " this team needs to win a lot more than it does another first round pick.
For those who think that winning games are important now, for a winning attitude or whatever, please tell me what the 45 wins last year and being the best team not to make the playoffs did for the team. Winning games that will ultimately give us a lower draft pick won't change the fact that we're still gonna be in the lotto. If we could make the playoffs that would do wonders for their confidence but winning 30-something games won't do any good. Next year, with an improved team, will be a totally new year, and whether they won 30 or 45 games the previous year they'll go out and try to at least make the playoffs. Plus Wink and Cat have as good heart, and never quit attitude as anyone so I doubt having that winning mentality will ever be a problem.
I agree with Clutch as should anybody with logic or reason. To those that do not, I ask what diffference a few more wins makes next season or two seasons down the line? Nothing. However, we will remember the few extra losses because they will give us one hell of an amazing player for years to come. Two years down the line, we won't be remembering a few meaningless wins at the end of the season, but we will be remembering the lotto pick that got us a great player.
First of all great post Clutch. Second, by no means is Clutch saying to tank, I'm against saying to the players,"Lets just lose this out to get a better pick". I think the Rockets should put their best effort every time they are on the court, if however they find themselves down by 15 or 20 with 5 minutes to go why not put in Langhi, Collier, Brown, Morris, Norris, Griffin, and Torres. Hell, send Cato out there and let him practice the post-up game in the actual game. About the lottery pick, there are still too many variables that could affect the Rockets. It still remains to be seen what players will declare. Whether or not certain players will be available, and the draft lottery. I want a high pick just as much as everyone else, and not to pick but to trade. However, this situation with the Clippers doesn't look good. The Clippers already have their pick, and they get Atlanta's pick as well unless it is a top three pick, and most likely it won't be, then they have two lottery picks, as it stands right now #6 and #13. The Clippers aren't looking to give out two guaranteed rookie contracts (God forbid Donald Sterling would open his wallet). There is no reason why the Clippers would want our lottery pick, or late first-rounder from Toronto. As much as I would hate to say it, I highly doubt the Rockets will acquire Odom. Now if for some reason, and it couild very well happen, the Clippers don't want a high profile player in return for Odom (don't want to pay the price for one), and dont want any guaranteed contracts (thus no high lottery picks), then the Clippers could very well let Odom walk away, or trade him for an expiring contract or contracts. Air Langhi made a good point about there being no Time Duncan in this upcoming draft. The 1997 draft shows that there are good players in the latter part of the lottery and that the higher lottery picks don't always pan out. For instance the third pick was Chauncey Billups, where is this guy now? the fourth pick was Antonio Daniels, now he is a backup. The 12th pick was Austin Croshere (who was good before he got Kelvin Cato-itis) and Derek Anderson was the 13th pick. With that being said the Rockets could still get a decent player at the seventh pick, and at the 15th. Albeit I'd rather see the Rockets trade to get a stud SF already in the league. So I figure lets just hope for the best and enjoy the rest of the season, before all the pessimists jump in and flame me for wanting to enjoy the rest of the losing season, lets remember that times like these help us to appreciate winning seasons, and give us more fire for next year.
