The way the show is being paced, I'm betting that whatever happens at the Swan, whether the accident is prevented or not, is going to be this seasons finale. So hypothetically, if they prevent the accident and the 815 crash never happens, what in the hell is the 6th season going to be about? I don't think you have to worry about anything Surfguy.
Now that Daniel is dead, I'm wondering about this vid. <object width="425" height="344"><param name="movie" value="http://www.youtube.com/v/AdWLYVRiin8&hl=en&fs=1"></param><param name="allowFullScreen" value="true"></param><param name="allowscriptaccess" value="always"></param><embed src="http://www.youtube.com/v/AdWLYVRiin8&hl=en&fs=1" type="application/x-shockwave-flash" allowscriptaccess="always" allowfullscreen="true" width="425" height="344"></embed></object> Because the offscreen voice in it always sounded like Daniel to me (most people actually). Maybe the people who though it was Miles are correct or maybe this isn't part of the canon.
Hawking vs Faraday: name changes are pretty common on this show. I'm not certain what exactly they want to represent by that. *Maybe* it's a light allusion to Saul being renamed to Paul the Apostle. But either way, we've got: Kevin Johnson, Jeremy Bentham, Jim LaFleur & Sawyer, Dean Moriarty & Henry Gale, the multiple aliases of Anthony Cooper, the multiple aliases of fugitive Kate, etc. Things I noticed in the episode: The piano w/metronome scene was a near perfect match for kiddie Sun in "The Glass Ballerina" episode. I assume there's parallels between the metronome and the pendulum in LA. I wish they'd ease off on the over-the-top "subtle" emphasis on the word TIME in the dialogue. We get it. The way Eloise was with Dan in the flashbacks reminded me a LOT of the way Christian interacted with Jack. I think this is probably a good hint that Christian indeed knew about Jack/Claire/Aaron's Island destiny from the get go, and separated Sarah and Jack intentionally. Thersea goes up the stairs, Theresea goes down the stairs. I was surprised that Widmore was revealed to be the dad. His connection to Eloise is well established (in fact, rewatch the S3 Desmond monastery episode again for the first Wid-Hawk intersection), but I had drifted away from that theory. This does tell us though that Eloise leaves the island before Widmore, and jacks up the possibility that she's Penny's mom. Also surprised that Widmore really was behind the hoax 815. I was dead certain it was Ben. Interesting inversion of the last time "the gang" split up - when the freightor came, Sawyer and Hurley (later Miles) opted for the Barracks while Jack and Kate (later joined by Dan) didn't. Jin and Juliette are the only ones that switched sides. Sucks to lose Dan - he was a strong character. Now his journal becomes HUGE. If someone in the past ends up with it.....shades of Biff Tannon getting the sports almanac. They've been pressing hard with the "when you try and exercise your free will in the past, you inadvertently cause the past to still take place" theory. I think it gets altered in some way before the season's through. I DON'T believe they keep the dominos from falling like Dan tried - that would create a bonafide paradox: they prevent 815.....then how would they go to the past to prevent 815? So...what if the journal ends up being the seed for Ilana and Bram's Dharma2 party? The real variable is Desmond, but I don't see how he goes back into the past. But that may be what does end the series itself.
Yep - it does pretty much kill the Dan theory. Maybe Dan came back as ghost and manned the camera. Stranger things have happened
thats what I was thinking. What if the island is not done with him. only, Eloise is unaware that Dan survives.
I'm pretty hip to most of the show but I am a little lost on whom is allied with whom. 1. Widmore - was a Dharma but left the island? Is he still Dharma? I assume his agenda is post-Dharma exploitation of the island but how could he have fathered a baby with a Hostile? Myguess is that he chenged his allegience for some period. 2. Eloise Hawking - is a hostile in 1974 so I assume she is working for the Hostiles that want the Island to remain unexploited. As a time traveler she new she needed to keep Daniel from destroying the energy. 3. Ben - I assume he is an agent of The Island/Hostiles and like his massacre of Dharma his agenda is to remove The Island from exploitation. 4. The Hostiles - Agents of The Island but where did they come from? Are they all Dharma expatriates? Are they the crew of the Blackrock (there wouldn't be any women) Are they descendants of the people that built the statue and temple? Richard Alpert seems to transcend time but seems limited in his power to influence events; powerful but never in charge behind Ben and Locke. 5.. The Ancients - The Temple and the three toed statue were built to honor themas gods. From the statue I assume there is an extraterrestrial component like the Island is their wormhole. So I'm thinking the Hostiles are the Earthly agents of the Ancients working to preserve the integrity of the Island and Widmore is Dharma working to exploit the energy of the Island. And the Losties are conscience of mankind trying to make a choice between conservation and exploitation, like an allegory for the struggle of conservation of resources vs. promoting the quality of life issues the planet is facing. I actually can see the end of Lost as Flight 815 landing in LA and everyone going about their lives unaware. The Hostiles prevail against the evil developers and the Ancients will someday again visit Earth. That's OK; that's how pretty much all science fiction stories end. The one proposition I hold out that is harder to comprehend is that the universe contains multiple realities. If the Losties are living in their 'present' like Faraday said in this episode, in 1977, that means their lives in 2004 were real, their lives in 2008 were real; those events happened somewhere in space and time. But when events change, like if the show ends with everyonegetting off the plane in 2004 unaware that anything has happened it doesn't mean the events were not real at some point in space and time.
Widmore was an other/hostile. He was never with Dharma. Dharma doesn't exist anymore (though in the ARG they were reconstituting it). He was booted off the island for having a relationship with an outsider, presumably Penny's mother. He blames Ben. I don't think she's a time traveler. And I don't think the electro magnetic energy at the Swan has anything to do with the time travel. Desmond destroyed the energy when he turned the failsafe key and they were still able to time travel afterwards. We don't know where they come from exactly. A few were ex-Dharma like Ben and Ethan, but Richard has always been there and Eloise and Widmore were with the hostiles long before Dharma got there.
Whats' ARG? Who were Widmore's compatriots that Sayid killed? ( I assumed that they were the Dharmas that were not on the Island) I think the event when Desmond didn't hit the button was just a discharge of energy from where the Swan breeched (the wormhole). That let loose the time travel anomalies we see; time travel in an uncontrolled fashion. Only the Ancients (that the Hostile revere as gods) can actually control it. It's also a pretty common theme of religion and sci-fi that some omnipotent power is going to come save mankind. They can't ever come back if the The Island is destroyed or the power changed. So that's why I figured Widmore was on the evil explotative (Dharma) side not the preservation of the Island side (Hostiles), the "man's abilities to effect nature have exceeding his comprehension of the consequences" theme.
ARG=Alternative Reality Game. Lost always does one between seasons. This last summer's ARG was that you could join the reconstituted Dharma Initiative. The video I posted earlier today came from the launch of the ARG at ComiCon. From what I understand, in the ARG, Dharma failed to successfully relaunch because of financial problems. Dharma died in the 90s after the purge. They don't exist anymore. Presumably, they existed solely to study the island but after the purge, they couldn't do that anymore and the project was abandoned. Widmore wants to get back to the island and reclaim his place on it. We really don't know much about the men Sayid killed other than what Ben told him (which could be a total fabrication). Desmond hitting the button vented the energy to prevent it from building up. When he didn't, the electro magnetism pulled the big metal plane to the island. There was no discharge of energy. It was the lack of a discharge that allowed it to act as a magnet. However, operating under the theory that the Swan is involved in the time travel (instead of just the Orchid where the donkey wheel is), maybe the "accident" is how the Losties get back to 2008. Maybe Dharma sees a big explosion and purple sky and everybody disappears. Maybe Dharma thinks everybody at the station has been obliterated/vaporized when they've actually been transported 30 years into the future. Why do you assume hostiles can control time travel? The only people that have been shown to time travel have been the Losties and Ben (because he turned the wheel). Sure, Richard doesn't age but that's another issue.
Why do you assume hostiles can control time travel? The only people that have been shown to time travel have been the Losties and Ben (because he turned the wheel). Sure, Richard doesn't age but that's another issue. I didn't think they can 'control' it but I was thinking that Widmore, Hawking and Richard did move through time; but as I review it now, I don't. Thanks Semantics on the other, electromagnitism is energy, I do think Desmond was venting off excess energy and when he didn't, there was a discharge of like an Electromagnetic Pulse that bhrought down the plane. And that the electromagnatism is just a side effect of the energy required to maintain the wormhole, like the island as the end of the wormhole shields the energy and when Dharma breeched it they only had the technology to minimized the effects. A large breech might erase the planet. Who built the Donkey wheel, how and why?
I like this Theory. It makes sense. According to that video, Chang looks at his arm like he knows his arm is going to get blown off, so someone still has to tell him about an "incident" and about his arm.
Ah well.. this season has really disappointed me. I seriously don't know what's ahead and with all this superstition stuff, it's really making me want to stop watching.
I try not to overanalyze it, as the whole continuum thing makes that difficult, but you folks do a pretty good job keeping the details corralled. In any event, I'm not convinced that Dan is dead yet. Locke looked like a goner when he got shot in the chest... so... who knows. That video with Chang sounds a lot more like Dan than Miles, but admittedly the sample is short and could be either. Also, do we know how the "Hostiles" began? I mean, Widmore and crew were military looking back when Faraday first came to them, were they not? They looked less primitive then, but maybe I'm "misremembering". I concur on the whole Eloise is evil thing... whatever the island is, she is willing to send her child through a life of blind work toward her own goals and eventual mortal danger to preserve the island as is. I also agree that it was a bit flaky for Kate and Jack to let him go in to the hostile camp brandishing a gun like that. One of the less believable moments, imo. still, not drastic or a dealkiller, but just seemed flaky. Question: If Dan had never "traveled through time" and come upon the Hbomb, then how did it keep from being detonated "the first time around". And if it didn't detonate the "first time around", as evidenced by no ground zero on the island initially, then why would he feel the need to see that it didn't detonate when he got there if he thought you can't change the past? What's left of this season looks to be really really good, and the last three episodes have been great. I am tentatively concerned though for how "time" and "alternate reality" may pan out in the long run. Slippery slope, with a lot of snags. So far so good, but then they don't reveal too much at once. I like the show a lot, but they have made no attempt to keep it snag free, and I fear when the ball of yarn gets tied into an uberknot of galactic proportions, they're going to wave their "time" wand and make it all irrelevant. If that happens I will be pissed.
How I view it: Others/Hostiles/Natives: I think of them as a sort of militant hippie commune. Definitely all about protecting the island, which means they listen to the words of the unseen Jacob as given to them by prophets that Jacob chooses. Richard's a sort of liason - walks among us but is not one of us. He doesn't lead, but sort of advises. Definitely ageless, and I wonder if he's a corporeal spirit. My guess is he was around with the Egyptian group when he crossed over. Widmore and Eloise are confirmed Others from at least as far back as teens in '54. If Widmore/Hawking was leading by '77, it means there is a fair chance that one or both of them had prophet status with Jacob. Widmore seemed to have direct communication with Jacob in '88. My theory on the Others is that they are not self-propagating. It appears that their ranks are made up through kidnapping. One theory is that you're all good with being an Other either by choice, by brainwashing, or by Smokey changing you. Sterilization is one sticky subject to figure out - Hawking and Widmore have Dan, so it's not ironclad (at least as of the 70s). Amy from Dharma had Ethan on the Island, so no issue there. But by 2000, Ben is sending Richard and Ethan to recruit Juliette because of the baby issue. Did Jacob just turn off the faucet? Was there an (ahem) Incident that caused this? It's not that they can't conceive - it's a semi-supernatural auto-immune thing that kills mother and child in the third trimester. Smokey vaccine after-effect is one other plausible theory. Which lets me segue to Ben. I think Ben qualifies as a false prophet. Locke constantly chided Ben for moving the Others into the Barracks (all the way back in S3 when he first found the Barracks), and I think there's something big to that. At all other points, we see them in tents and living off the land. Ben compromises that. Ben also seems to challenge the "will of Jacob" a bit. If sterilization was from Jacob, Ben doesn't accept it and brings in Juliette to try and get around it. Ben tries to leverage Jacob to undo Juliette's sister's tumor to keep Juliette around, and Jacob finally gets pissy and puts it into Ben's spine. Ben bucks the list to bring in Jack to fix the spine, Ben shoots Locke when Jacob speaks to him, Ben clearly took the off-island trips that got Widmore banned, etc, etc. Ben passes along the word of Jacob to the Others, but sneaks his own agenda in there as well. Locke is the heir apparent to run the Others in 2007/2008. He's clearly the most pure of the "prophets" we've seen, in that the Island truly is the point with him. He doesn't factor into the equation. The island gifted him his legs, but he doesn't actively seek out perks. The only other point I'd wedge in here about him is that he's been given heavy John the Baptist parallels since the start, which suggests that he's a forerunner for the real Messiah. Jack is the obvious choice there, but I wouldn't bank all of my money on it - Hurley is a very real darkhorse. Christian is the final person I'll insert into this super bloated post. No wait, he's not. Sorry. But I'll make it brief. It's possible if not likely that Christian was an Other from way back. In the first few seasons, his Jack flashbacks had him awfully conspicuous. Very much seemingly in the know about Jack's future. And Claire's. (And Aaron's). Hanso. Hey, HanSo. Han Solo? Star Wars and this show....Anyway, the Black Rock and Hanso (later "descendant" started Dharma) is one of our 2 last gigantic black holes in the series. My assumption is that the crew was recruited into the Others, and that Hanso eventually left to start up Dharma (only a hundred years later). The other black hole being the Egyptians. I think Richard originated with them, I believe the Others originated with them. They seem to have built the statue (be it the hippo, or Bast the cat, or whatever) and have clear knowledge of all the Island secrets, including the FDW and Smokey. I'll guess a portal to the island popped up along the Nile or Mediterranean in 2600 BC.
Locke was shot in the kidneys. But he had donated one to his con man father so the bullet went straight through. They had laid the groundwork for Locke surviving. They haven't done that with Daniel. The only way I see Daniel surviving is if they take him to the Temple like they did with Ben. The others/hostiles are fond of disguises. They were decked out in military unis in the 50s, but they stole them off of the US soldiers who came to the island to investigate what happened to the hydrogen bomb that didn't detonate. When the Losties first encountered them, they were dressed in rags and acted as if they still lived in the wild. They referred to Daniel's fate and Widmore's non involvement with Penny as "sacrifices". Maybe its something they had to do for the greater good. Would you let your kid die if it meant saving everyone else in the world? According to Daniel, he always traveled through time and always me the hostiles in the 50s and always told them to bury it. In the 70s, he knew the bomb hadn't detonated, he just needed to know where they buried it so that he could use it to stop the "accident". But for all we know, maybe the H-Bomb causes the accident. Daniel was trying to change the future when he went to find his mother. Jack was trying to change the future when he refused to operate on Ben. Instead, they were actually doing what they had always done. Whatever happened, happened. Maybe they think they can stop the accident by using the H-Bomb when in reality they've always used it and their actions are what cause the accident in the first place.
