all resource extraction everywhere kills workers. Lithium could be sourced from Afghanistan (which actually has by far the most lithium in the world), and done properly, provide the basis of an entire new economy in that region. I'm assuming America will bully Afghanistan for its' lithium as it bullies the rest of the Middle East for oil, but any energy source anywhere will always attract the worst of power. This could be a boon for a country in desperate need.
I'll tell you what is the biggest joke...they can't sell direct in Texas...can't mention pricing, test drive etc....the state government decided to protect dealers....pure load of bs...
Thx for the explanation. Not my area of expertise. At the end of the day they want to make electric car affordable to many. Not sure how they get there without cost reduction. I have to think they are looking at newer and more creative ways to reduce the battery cost unless they can massively reduce cost elsewhere such as their engine... I guess we'll see.
If I remember correctly, you cannot sell car direct. You must have local dealers and this is the case for all states. Why? Cause they said there are too many direct and indirect jobs tied to local dealers. I don't buy that and it's against free market idea where newer and better ideas can replace outdated one. The real reason I think is money by the dealers to politician.
Here is a good article on this.. http://www.npr.org/blogs/money/2013/02/19/172402376/why-buying-a-car-never-changes
Help me out here -- who was the other gun loving dude with a battery fetish on the board... fmullegun? Haven't seen him post in a while... or have I..?
I guess you are are referring to accidents. Yes, but do the workers and people in the surrounding communities die from hazardous toxins and radioactive waste. In China, they are destroying rivers, as mining requires a lot of influent water supplies creating effluent wastes that must be controlled. Rare Earth metal mining if by far the dirtiest mining in the industry, which is done in substantial quantities. I'm not saying don't mine for Lithium, I'm just saying that the positive Carbon Footprint of Lithium batteries is only one environmental impact of concern. Destroying water supplies is equally bad to carbon, if not moreso.
In terms of how we currently source fossil fuels, and most energy, yes. I'm not going to claim to be an expert on mining techniques, and you can run circles around me with any claim you have with regards to one type of mining being better than another (at least until I get my research mitts on). Still, I acknowledge this is a cost of electric cars many do not acknowledge, but it's also a cost that is built into how we typically source energy or resources (the more the better, burn and use all the things mentality).
I found the answer to my own question. Skipping past the part where they belittle the company because of low sales volumes, the efficiency analysis is interesting. Basically, it looks like currently Tesla vehicles have a larger fossil fuel footprint than a Civic Hybrid. Assuming some efficiency gains, it could be closer to 80% of a Civic Hybrid footprint and 60% of a regular Civic. http://www.zerohedge.com/news/2013-05-29/greenback-revolution-why-tesla-just-distraction Continued gains in fuel efficiency for regular combustion vehicles might be similar to pure electric efficiency gains, but more choices for consumers is not a bad thing.
But isn't that just due to how much more powerful the engine is? It does 0-60 in < 4 seconds, right? So, if they fix the software problem -- "vampire" power at idle, your chart already shows better efficiency in a much faster car. If you slow that battery power down, then it could reach Golf Cart efficiency and beyond.
How Tesla Motors Really Makes Money… From Taxpayers Tesla’s announcement that it had paid back its government loan made it sound like at least one of Obama’s crony capitalist Green Energy boondoggles was working the way it was supposed to. Finally at least one green energy company wasn't drinking the blood of taxpayers in its corporate offices and was actually making money selling things. It was the dawn of a new age. Except it wasn’t. Tesla isn’t actually making money selling cars. It’s making money from crony capitalist taxes of people who buy cars from other companies. And even the customers who buy its cars get paid with taxpayer money. Tesla is still turning a profit, not from customers, but from money being seized from taxpayers to compensate its customers for buying Tesla.
Tesla is a classic example of crony capitalism. Big business getting in bed with big government to extract taxpayer subsidies and profit from rules they help write. Tesla loses money on every car they sell. The profits come from green car credits they get from shaking down other car companies. Other car companies have to pay Tesla if they don't make enough green cars. It's a total scam. http://online.wsj.com/article/SB10001424127887324659404578499460139237952.html How awesome is that? For every car they make, they get $45k NOT FROM THE PERSON BUYING THE CAR, but from the taxpayer or other companies. And the worst part is the government/taxpayer got no ownership stake for giving Tesla that massive loan. So Musk gets all the profit while we took all the risk.
betting on Musk isn't exactly a big risk. The guy could have easily gone the way of the rest of the Paypal Mafia and continued creating Web 2.0 applications that would have earned him even more billions than PayPal did. it's not like he's a military contractor that depends on government largesse, or GE that pays negative corporate tax. The guy's a self-made billionaire whose original venture has helped make more billionaires than almost any other venture in history. He could have retired into the night, or continued making Web 2.0 platforms that earned the United States ******ns of income tax for near nothing. Instead he decided to try to change the world by building affordable electrical cars (boohoo if he's on the wrong side of the cost curve for now, how long did Congress subsidize telephone lines and electricity?), American solar panels (for you "made-in-America" zealots) and rockets to take the next commercial step into space. For reference---http://www.rurdev.usda.gov/rd/70th/rea-history.pdf so yeah, in summary, these are not the crony capitalists you are looking for.
Conservatives are quick to pin the label on crony capitalism to rid them the largesse stink of the dub**** admin. If they took a deep breath and a step back and reassess the label, maybe the charges would stick.
Military contractors provide goods and services in exchange for tax dollars. Musk takes our tax dollars and profits for himself. Yep, they got rich while we took all the risk and got no return. Sure they are. They used government subsidies and loans and laws to enrich themselves at the expense of others. The opposite of a free marketplace.
wut. Yeah, the government took all the risk on Facebook, LinkedIn, Youtube, Yelp, Square and Paypal, and the American people got no return on those. Musk provides goods and services as well, unless a car has somehow slipped your definition of a good for some reason.
What risk are you referring to? No, we did not purchase cars from Tesla like we do planes or bullets from a military contractor. We just gave Tesla money for nothing in return. If you want a car you have to pay Musk an additional $70k.
