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Look at this halftime score

Discussion in 'NBA Dish' started by RocketKid, Feb 26, 2005.

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  1. NIKEstrad

    NIKEstrad Member

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    Wow. A layup.

    Dirk Nowitzki by position

    Take a look at opponent production per 48 minutes.

    We can even ignore the PER at the 3 slot due to minimal time. At the 4, Dirk's opponent PER is 16.1. At center, it's 18.6.

    Both of these are above the league average of 15.
     
  2. ocelot_ark

    ocelot_ark Member

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    Tell me how that stat is compiled? Does someone sit there and watch every play of every game? or does someone look at who played what position and then compare their end of game stats? Just because dirk is the 4 doesn't mean he guards the 4. Especially with nellie's system.

    Regardless, Im willing to bet that those numbers are significantly better than they have been in the past.
     
  3. Kyrodis

    Kyrodis Member

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    The number of steals and blocks a player has, while an important factor, isn't a complete measure of how good a defender is.

    Take a look at someone who's touted as one of the league's best perimeter defenders: Bruce Bowen. Granted, that reputation is undeserved in my opinion. You have to at least admit that he's an above average defender though. Despite being an above average defender, the guy only has career averages of 0.89 steals, and 0.49 blocks.

    Another example is AI. The reason why he gets 2.5+ steals per game is because he plays the passing lanes and gambles a lot on defense. More often than not, the opposing player just blows by him. You can't really call AI a "good defender" just because he averages a lot of steals.
     
  4. ocelot_ark

    ocelot_ark Member

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    I already explained that i was using those numbers as supporting evidence, that's all...His numbers, defensively (without going to look them up), are fairly close to garnett's.
     
  5. NIKEstrad

    NIKEstrad Member

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    Go do your own work. The info is on the site itself. You asked me to give support as to why Dirk is not an above average defender. There it is. You still haven't given a compelling case for him being above average defender. Has he gotten any votes for NBA All-Defense yet? Even Steve Francis has.

    For your purposes, yes, those numbers are better than they have been in the past.

    Dirk is certainly an improved defender, but I don't see anybody debating that. That doesn't make him an "above-average" defender. Your team still gave up 120+ to a Suns team without Nash. They averaged 90.6 during the 5 game stretch they missed him earlier in the season. Though I know not having the 2nd best center in the NBA contributed to that.
     
  6. ocelot_ark

    ocelot_ark Member

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    We've given that much up to about every team we've faced without Dampier.

    I don't know, though. I guess I trust my eyes to much. Perhaps since Dirk is surrounded by inferior defenders, making him the 2nd best defender on the team (as noted by the coach), it just makes him look better. BUT, I'm not going to convince you otherwise. He's better now...he's getting better every game. He STILL doesn't agressively go after shots, but every once in a while he'll go after one and throw it into the seats. Once he realizes that he can do that more often I think you'll see a completely revamped player.

    Every season but one, last year, Dirk has improved on something. This year he's improved on just about everything. his passing, his rebounding, his SCORING, and yes - his defense.

    By the way, that same site shows that Tim Duncan gives up over 19 points a game to opposing centers. Does that mean that Dirk is better at defending centers with his sub 19? Of course not. That site is an arbitrary compilation of stats. Offensive numbers are one thing, but trying to determine how one defends by the numbers on a box score is ludicrous.
     
  7. Faos

    Faos Member

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    It was great seeing the king flopper, Dirk, get fouled on the last shot and not get it called. Sweet way to lose.
     
  8. Deuce

    Deuce Context & Nuance

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    While I like Cuban, it is funny to see Cuban and Dirk WHINE and squirm when they dont get their way like the ending of the game last night. They have such a sense of entitlement it isnt even funny.

    Memo to Cuban and Dirk, things dont always go YOUR way!
     
  9. Deuce

    Deuce Context & Nuance

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    Speaking of Dallas and defense. I STILL think Dallas is going to regret not adding PJ Brown to the team instead of what they did in adding KVH. Other than Dampier they have ZERO inside defense. They should have added Brown as a backup.

    Once again Nellie/Cuban get seduced by offense.
     
  10. ocelot_ark

    ocelot_ark Member

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    Ummm, sense of entitlement? The guy got fouled. He's ENTITLED to two free throws. On a night when the Spurs lost, that call getting blown really hurts.

    As for PJ Brown, I totally agree. I don't think the KVH trade was a BAD trade, I just wish we could have gotten PJ. I've always loved the way PJ plays. He could have backed up Dirk and Dampier better than anyone we have now.
     
  11. dharocks

    dharocks Member

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    And when the 2nd best center in the league clearly goaltends a shot, the Kings are entitled to two points. It's basketball. Tell Dirk and Cubes to stop crying.
     
  12. Deuce

    Deuce Context & Nuance

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    I am talking about Dallas in general. Not just specifically last night. Cuban and Dirk whine endlessly. And many times they get their way. So from my perspective it was funny to see them NOT get their way.
     
  13. danielf

    danielf Member

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    King flopper is his fellow countryman Jurgen Klinsmann...

    (former soccer player, now manager of German team).

     
  14. Pipe

    Pipe Member

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    NIKEstad, since you asked, JVG disagrees with you ;)

    I can't provide the link, but it is from the Rockets Summary in Chron the last time we played the Mavs (Jan 13). I especially like the backhanded slap at the officials :) :

    Nowitzki evolves, too

    While he was on the subject of great scorers playing good defense, Rockets coach Jeff Van Gundysaid Dallas forward Dirk Nowitzki also should be given credit for his play that is far removed from his reputation.

    "No one gives Nowitzki credit," Van Gundy said. "The guy has turned into a very good defender. You watch him. Pick-and-roll coverages, he doesn't screw up. He shows well. He has learned how to strip guys when they go by. He fouls them and doesn't get called for it. Great anticipation. He's figured it out defensively."
     
  15. NIKEstrad

    NIKEstrad Member

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    What a sparkling opinion. :)
     
  16. v3.0

    v3.0 Member

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    I just love the g*ngbang you guys are giving to this "No-D-witzki" lover... :D
     
  17. ocelot_ark

    ocelot_ark Member

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    JVG isn't the only basketball authority to make that relevation. Then again, those who rely on Inside the NBA with Chuck, Ernie, and Kenny for all of their basketball insight might just be a tad ignorant.
     
  18. ROXTXIA

    ROXTXIA Member

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    Do you mean, like, when an opponent stands anywhere within two feet of Dirk Nowitzki and he bellows, AAAAAAAUUUUGH! in a way that would make Charlie Brown proud, while simultaneously propelling himself as if sideswiped by a car.....which the officials buy almost every time?
     
  19. v3.0

    v3.0 Member

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    That must be German slang for "I have no D!!!"
     

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