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Linconsistency

Discussion in 'Houston Rockets: Game Action & Roster Moves' started by lightningbolt, Aug 9, 2013.

  1. Knickskiller

    Knickskiller Member

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    OK, I am not expecting you to back down, cause it looks like the line is draw for you. Just sayign my piece, cause it needs to be said and shouldn't be to tolerated .
    That image posted by PatBeverleyFan is crossing very close to it.
     
  2. Knickskiller

    Knickskiller Member

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    Back in the Yao days it was the same.
     
  3. Nubmonger

    Nubmonger Member

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    Regardless of what some people on the boards think, and whether or not the mods/Clutch crack down on it, that image is clearly racist. Whether or not you want to give it a pass because "it's a joke" is entirely up to you as a person, but that doesn't change the fact that it's a racist picture.
     
    1 person likes this.
  4. Jetfuel

    Jetfuel Member

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    To me the fact that they haven't come down really hard and stated outright just how unacceptable this kind of thing should be says everything one needs to know about the mentality on here from many, including the mods/administrator towards Lin and Lin fans.

    There has been a lot of other tacit stuff, but it seems there is no line of decency that cannot be broken on these forums when it comes to trolling or trying to aggravate Lin fans, scorned as they are.
     
  5. flamingdts

    flamingdts Member

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    That guy is an obvious troll.

    Joined in 2013. Names himself Patrick Beverley fan, and posts a racist image pertaining to Lin.

    Not exactly a subtle troll, and not exactly a good example of the average member of this board.
     
  6. TheBornLoser

    TheBornLoser Contributing Member

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    I got neg-repped and warned by Clutch for one of my (relatively harmless) comments re: Lin. I wonder whether he (Clutch) does the same to these other "trolling" folks around here.....
     
  7. lightningbolt

    lightningbolt Member

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    Dude, I really appreciate the feedback. It means a lot to have that come from you, as I've read a lot of your posts and they are always on point and well though out. In fact, when I tried to submit positive feedback to you just now, it said "You must spread some Reputation around before giving it to Nubmonger again."

    I also agree with your analysis that Lin's lack of consistency in his first full season as a starter could actually be a good sign for the future. People sometimes forget that he was facing many teams for the first time as a starter: Paul and the Clippers, Curry and Golden State, Westbrook and OKC, Conley and the Grizzlies, to name a few. That Lin was able to put up good and in some cases great games against those teams and others shows the potential that is there. But because of his inexperience, there will still be growing pains, and so it goes that with the highs you also get some bad lows. I get that this is frustrating for many fans (myself included), but success in the NBA is about constantly adjusting and improving, something that Lin has shown throughout his NBA career that he is capable of doing.
     
  8. sugrlndkid

    sugrlndkid Member

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    Most reasonable folks know that Lin is a decent player...He isnt a superstar, but he did for me what he was supposed to do. And if it weren't for a freak injury during the playoffs, he might have had a nice postseason as well...
    Lin will continue to do well as he get more comfortable as a starter, and as he lets his game evolve. There is no question that Beverley is pushing him for the starting spot, but we have all seen what Lin's best can produce.

    Jeremy is a "ball dominant" guard and often demands that he has the rock in his hands to lead a offense. However, the problem is that James Harden is a far superior offensive weapon... The weakness for Jeremy is still that his jumper isnt as efficient as James' and that James is able to be just as devastating attacking the rim as he would stepping back.

    Lin has to become a lethal jumpshooter. If Lin develops that in his arsenal, the ball can run through James or through Lin with incredible offensive efficiency. And this unwarranted hate on Lin's game can/will be silenced. I love the fact that Lin is fearless as he attacks the rim..He falls down entirely too much, but he really is quick to the rim. I really hope that this offseason he learns to have a automatic jumpshot. Practicing with some of the all time great jumpshooters can and should help. I realy was hoping that he enlisted the help of players like Reggie Miller, Calvin Murphy...

    I have suggested that the Rocket use James as a wing shooting threat initially just so he can tinker with his range and shot selection. By doing so, Lin can try incorporating a sense of offensive execution and rhythm. Once Lin is able to jumpstart his game, Harden has developed a sense of game plan adjustment. He can then begin attacking the rim. This will allow Lin to be comfortable just shooting from distance...
     
  9. jayland

    jayland Member

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    How is posting a picture of Lin with a bunch of asian men in the back claiming they are his fan club racist or offensive? I would think Lin would have a lot of Asian men who are his fans. It's not like the picture said the "small penis club" or "slanted eye club". Would it anymore or less racist if it were a bunch of black people or white people in the background instead of Asians? If it were a picture of Lebron and there were a bunch of black dudes in the background or if it were Dirk and a bunch of white guys in the back would it be racist?
     
  10. raskol

    raskol Contributing Member

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    I could literally hear your IQ reading this post. Good one! You should've quoted a few more fun things though.
     
  11. hltiki

    hltiki Member

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    Of course it would...

    Again, whether you take it offensively or not is all a matter of choice, but it does not change the fact that the image calls upon the topic of race; so first and foremost, it is at the very least racial. But the image begins to tread of waters of racism when it starts implying that ONLY Asians are Lin fans.

    If, for example, it were a picture of Obama's voters and they were all black men, what would that say? It shows that blacks don't know jack **** about governmental, political, economical, and foreign issues; and that they are merely voting simply because they share the same skin color. And it also implies that Obama only won because of his race, and NOT any of his policies.

    You see what does, it dehumanizes EVERYONE, it dehumanizes Obama and it dehumanizes his constituents.
     
  12. jayland

    jayland Member

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    See it comes down to interpretation. The picture doesn't say "Lin's only fanbase". Some might see it as just suggesting there are many Asian men who are fans of Lin, which is probably true.

    It is like your interpratation of a picture of of black men saying they are Obama voters would suggest that black men are ignorant because they voted for Obama due to his skin color. Other might see it only implying that a lot of black men voted for Obama.

    Like it or not though a lot of Asians are fans of Lin because Lin is Asian. You didn't see the Asian community have should hype and support before in the past over much better basket players who weren't Asian. Just like we didn't see such high voter turnout among blacks before Obama ran for president. Is the color of their skin the "only" reason Asians and Blacks support Lin and Obama? No. Their "skills" and "success" played an important part too but it is hard to say race did not have a strong influence.

    And there's nothing wrong with that. China became a strong fanbase for the NBA simply because of Yao. Did the Chinese simply support Yao because of his height and skills while his race had nothing to do with it? Or did they support Yao because he was Chinese along with his talents?

    There's also many people in Germany who are fans of Dirk simply because he's German. Just like there are many fans of the Gasol brothers in Spain because they are from Spain. I don't think a lot of people would cry racism if someone said Yao had a lot of Chinese fans, Dirk had a lot of German fans, or the Gasols had a lot of Spanish fans. So why would saying Lin has a lot of Asian fans be any different?

    I could also see some might think the picture is racist because the Asians in the background look "funny". However that's how a lot of middle aged Asian men look. I'm sure a lot of Asians who are in grew up in countries that are not ethically diverse would think Whites, Blacks, or Hispanics look kind of "funny" too while those in the Lin background look normal.

    Would it be any more or less offensive if instead of Asians there were a picture of Christians in the background of Lin's picture? Many support Lin beacuse of his strong belief in his faith. Would it be wrong for some fans to support Lin because they have the same religion beliefs as he does?
     
  13. raskol

    raskol Contributing Member

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    Maybe you missed the post and context in which the picture was first post. Two people were arguing, one saying Bev and Canaan were better than Lin, the other telling the newbie poster to grow up. Then, the guy busts out the picture and I'm pretty sure it was not to just say "Lin's popular with the Asians, isn't that cool." Stop arguing and protecting something (while straining against reason) that doesn't need to be protected. Let it go~
     
  14. hltiki

    hltiki Member

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    Everything that you're saying is true. There is absolutely nothing wrong with rooting for someone who looks like you or shares X quality/qualities that you personally have; ****, that's what makes comedians funny and protagonists in movies so likable.

    But for some reason, whenever we talk about Dirk or the Gasol brothers or even Manu, there is barely any mention of Germans, the Spanish, or Hispanics. With Lin though...

    And yes, many Asians think that non-Asians look "funny," and you know what I call them, ignorant fools who have never been outside of their town/city/village.
     
  15. Nubmonger

    Nubmonger Member

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    Thanks for the kind words, good sir!

    I agree with you that a lot of the "inconsistency" is due to watching him have a fantastic game every once in a while followed up by stretches where he just plays average-to-mediocre-to-poor. And, as many people have noticed, when he does really poorly, there seems to be no "legitimate" reason. It's hard to reconcile the guy who runs into the paint and scores at will vs. the guy who hesitates on a wide-open jumper and chucks up an airball.

    That's also why we get a lot of people who think that it must be psychological - i.e., he isn't confident enough or McHale yanks him whenever he makes the slightest mistake so he plays to avoid failure rather than to win or he just plain doesn't have the mental toughness to play in the NBA.

    Personally I chalk it up to a combination of those things, in addition to the weight of playing up to his contract and being a leader on a young team. But really, I think most of it was just his rehabilitation from the surgery. He wasn't physically the same player he was, and when he tried to be that guy he found out that he couldn't do the same things. So this caused a negative cycle where he wasn't able to perform, which probably hurt his (and McHale's) confidence, which then hurt his ability to perform, etc. etc. etc.

    It wasn't until later in the season that he was able to get physically back to where he was before, and so it's no surprise that he was able to perform more consistently and closer to his peak.

    Lastly, I will say that a lot of fans, at least those who were able to actually watch the games, are probably suffering from some cognitive biases as well. First impressions really do matter quite a bit - psychologically, they form incredibly quickly and are rewritten only after a period of sustained, long-term observations that are in contradiction to the first impression. Lin not only played poorly in the beginning, he looked like he was playing poorly too (yes, there is a difference - Allen Iverson had plenty of bad games where people think he was awesome because of how he scored his points). That kind of thing is hard to overcome. In addition, people had really high expectations because of the whole Linsanity thing, and since many of them weren't watching the Knicks when it happened, all they had to go on was "this guy is supposed to be really good" while watching him play like crap. That's not a recipe for success, and just screams for sports fans to automatically slap the label of "overrated" on him. And if we know anything, it's that there's nothing a sports fan loves more than calling someone overrated - it's worse than being called a scrub or a loser or a failure. Overrated means that everyone else thinks he's great but you know that he's bad, which in turn implies that everyone else is stupid and wrong and you are right and smart.
     
  16. HOUSTONJS

    HOUSTONJS Member

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    I really don't see how that picture is racist. A lot of Lin's true supporters are Asian and it is a jab at that. There is a ton of ways that picture could have been produced to be truly racist but I just don't see it.
     
  17. Nubmonger

    Nubmonger Member

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    Many Asians are fans of Jeremy Lin because he is Asian.
    Many fans of Jeremy Lin are Asian.
    Therefore, most or all of Jeremy Lin's fans are Asian, and are primarily his fans because he is Asian.

    This logic is flawed. Jeremy Lin might have a lot of Asian fans, but that doesn't mean that most of his fans are Asian. The Obama analogy is actually incredibly apt here. Obama may have gotten most of the Black vote, but that doesn't mean that posting a photo of Obama with all black people behind it and slapping "OBAMA VOTERS" in big, giant letters is accurate. Based on my memory of the last census, Blacks make up some 14% of the country and an even lesser slice of the actual electorate, and an even lesser slice of that of the actual voters. That's at least 37% of the country he would still need to get 51% of the vote. Even if Obama got every single Black vote, he wouldn't have won the election without getting more than twice as many non-Black voters to vote for him. If you wanted an accurate photo of Obama voters, you would only have around 1/3, at the most, of the photo be Black faces, not all of them.

    So the question becomes, why would you put the image up in the first place if it isn't an accurate representation of his actual voter base?

    Because, as others have already pointed out, the image alludes to the idea that Blacks only vote for Obama because he is Black, and therefore all of his support stems from a racial preference on the part of Blacks. For those who might oppose Obama, it reinforces the idea that he is illegitimate - he doesn't represent the country, because he wasn't put into office by people who chose him for his ideas or his leadership, but people who chose him for the color of his skin.

    It's racist in all the best ways, in the sense that it flips the script and portrays the minority as being racially motivated and explicitly calling them out as a separate group, while preserving the "voter integrity" of everyone else who wasn't included in the image (because everyone else voted for who they thought was best, not who they thought looked the most like them). In other words, it preserves the "us vs. them" dynamic while labeling "them" as being the racists, not "us".

    There is an incredibly similar dynamic going on with the Lin photo. I seriously doubt the mental capacity of someone who doesn't clearly see that it is racist. Like I said, you can give it a pass because you think it's funny or you value free speech or whatever, but that doesn't mean it isn't racist.

    I have laughed at plenty of jokes that I am sure are racist, but I'm not going to lie to myself or others and try to rationalize away the fact that they were completely racist jokes.
     
  18. HOUSTONJS

    HOUSTONJS Member

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    [​IMG]
    Is this racist?
     
  19. jordnnnn

    jordnnnn Member

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    So was it racist for all the NBA originations to have their Asian heritage night when The Rockets came to town last season? Purely coincidental?
     
  20. JustAGuy

    JustAGuy Member

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    Fantastic post; the only part you got wrong was "I seriously doubt the mental capacity of someone who doesn't clearly see that it is racist."

    (Believe it or not there is research on this area. As with many things, there is a spectrum of reactions, and the difference in reaction isn't correlated to intelligence. It's the same as talking to people who seem intelligent but have completely different political views. Weird, but it really happens.)
     

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