I think his background helped him gain a lot of fans because he was a top high school basketball player that didn't get any scholarships to the colleges he wanted to go. He went to Harvard (how many NBA players went here?), went to the D League, was about to get cut from the Knicks team, he was sleeping on couches, had that fantastic run playing for the Knicks, managed to stay humble and kind, didn't care much for the spotlight like MOST NBA players do and is a Christian. He has already proven that he belongs in the NBA and because of the background I briefly described, many people are drawn to him. If he was anothe race with the same background, I would root for him as well. So stop saying it's because he's Asian. There was this other Asian player that played for the Mavericks that didn't play well. Where were all of his "Linsanity" type fans?
I tend to shy away from the topic of race, but this forum is getting a bit ridiculous no? The crux of a bunch of people's arguments is that Lin benefited from being Asian financially, therefore his achievements as a path-breaking minority does not matter. That is blatantly ignorant at best and intentionally inflammatory at worst. 1) Lin reaped substantial financial dividends by being Asian yet performing at an NBA level. This is not really in dispute. This guy is no Kobe or Harden or even Wall. He got endorsements and money superior to his talent. The reason why is below. 2) The use of his financial success to discredit his difficult path as an Asian to the NBA is an attempt to discredit his effort. This guy worked his butt off to pursue his dream. No, I'm not saying African American or white players did not also work hard. But in the NBA, Asians are the minority and Lin's celebrated for overcoming the obstacles imposed by that minority status. 3) It's not the LOF double standard you are highlighting, it is your own. You clearly are not familiar with Robinson's history if you think that's not analogous. Remember "Did You See Jackie Robinson Hit That Ball?"? You and others consistently attempt to discredit his achievements using weak, strawman arguments based on your indignation at Lin's fan base. Small wonder his fans and Asians will respond. 4) You and others use Lin's fans as justification for discrediting him, which is very much "special treatment." The general argument goes like this. Lin's fans are fanatics. Lin's fans have to be Asian. Now, by implication... wait, but I'm not racist. Remember Biden's description of Obama as "articulate and bright and clean?" What does your comments on Lin reveal about yourself?
Thing about Tebow however, was that Tebow was big even in college for being a Bible thumping QB in a very successful Florida football program. Race didn't help too much prior to Linsanity, though I would argue that in comparison the like 99% of undrafted free agents, Lin has had far more success. He didn't have to go play in Europe and he is not unemployed. Even if he didn't get a stable spot on a team until the Knicks, he was at least able to find employment from NBA teams. That is far more success than most UDFA have regardless of ethnicity.
You are missing the point. My point was that he blew up the way he did internationally, because he was Asian and doing good. If he was not Asian, he would not have gotten a fraction of the overwhelming and sustainable fanatic attention that he got otherwise. He would have been another flavor of the month player that ultimately people stop talking about short of team fans.
I don't know much about baseball, but Jackie Robinson is a hall of fame level epic dude, not to mention first African American to ever play in the MLB. Lin is not the first Asian, nor is he even good, let alone hall of fame level. So no, they are nothing alike. And don't pretend like people on this board are racist, either. I know this predates you being a fan, but remember the Rockets had Yao for his entire career and we all love that guy to death? And finally, nobody would be arguing if Lin actually played at any respectable level.
Your point is taken but I respectfully disagree. I don't think there will be anything near Linsanity levels for any record anytime soon. I used the Durant example because it's recent and it does illustrate my point. Not because it was a "best". Maybe Ray Allen breaking Reggie's all time 3pt mark would have been a better example? I've seen many "bests" fall in 25 years of watching the NBA and I don't ever remember a media hype like we witnessed during Linsanity. It was unavoidable even for the casual fan. Of course we have to consider the state of the media today in general. Social media, internet, the information age, etc. all play their part. Journalists are locked and loaded ready to fire on a moments notice when they even sniff a story. Just look at the crap we endured during the Howard free agency. It's ridiculous. Again, this takes nothing away from Jeremy. I love an underdog story and as a Rockets fan I'm always rooting for him. It's the perception and expectations that drive some of the batty discussions (primary online) that I tend to debate.
I'm also from NY and was here during Linsanity. I agree 100% with what you said. Best post in this thread.
Well thought out post, but I'd be very careful about even roughly comparing Lin to Robinson. Just a thought.
But Tebow was extraordinarily terrible tho. He was great on my fantasy football team the year he was on denver but I have never seen an QB literally not be able to throw a football and still get so much love and have an actual offense catered to him. To be fair, he won but good god it was like watching a trex throw the ball. I would debate with you that lin was not just some average undrafted free agent. He was the best player on every team he was on from HS thru college and they won with him as the best player. He tested as elite for his speed in the combines. He bested guys like kemba walker and john wall in head to head matchups the few times he saw them. And the only reason he got a chance to play on the knicks was because of the lockout that year and the amount of back to back to back they had. Guys were dropping like flies.
Linsanity wouldn't have happened if it wasn't in NY either. What's your point? There were a ton of factors involved that made following the story fascinating. There's also the Tim Tebow effect, a guy with many flaws to his game but goes on an unbelievable streak. Also the fact an NBA player couldn't get one single D1 scholarship, as the California state player of the year, is just ridiculous. If you don't think race played a part in that you're delusional.
Tebow was a great COLLEGE QB, but a really crappy NFL QB. I consider Tebow in the same vein as VY. I am not denying that Lin has talent, I just don't think Lin is a star or can be a star. It would take a lot of stars to align perfectly again for him to get a chance to try and prove it, like the situation he had in NYC. My personal take on Lin is he is not nearly as bad as his performances this season have suggested and that as a hard working young kid, he WILL get better. I just think his ultimate ceiling is a good PG in the tier of say Dragic, if he is put in a role that he likes.
My point is that racism has helped Lin far more than it has hurt him, so when his stupid groupie fans complain about racism this, racism that, that they also consider Lin owes much of his fame and riches to the same racism that his fanatics are accusing everyone of when he does not perform well.
Not to go off topic, but VY is better than Tebow. Again that is fair that you don't think if Lin can be a star. I don't know if he can be either. I just don't think he gets a fair shake from alot of people here. He is literally being asked to do all the things that are the worst in his skillset all in one year and people wonder why he is inconsistent. Now what he excels in is a bit redundant with him and harden but thats not his fault either. And yes he drive me crazy with his mistakes sometimes but he is clearly doing what he can by making the best of the situation and helping them win. And I just think its crazy how people say a team cant go anywhere with him as the PG. I actually kind of see him as a chauncey billups type. It took a minute for billups to figure who he was and be a championship PG.
I actually don't think it would be a good example. The 3 point record is one of those esoteric records that really NOBODY cares about. That's like passing the record for most consecutive free throws or most games in a row making at least one 3-pointer. If you want to talk high impact records, we're talking stuff like Wilt's 100 point game, the most consecutive 25 point games (80 by Wilt), all time scoring record (38,387 KAJ), stuff like that. Yes, Lin's race magnified it in a unique way, but let's not conflate that with the impact of his story and the record itself. Most points ever scored in their first 5 starts is big already. If a 1st round rookie did that the basketball world would be going nuts. If a 2nd round pick did that it would spill over into mainstream media. Now, have it done by a guy who was on a 10 day contract and 3 days from being cut again, coming from the D-league, who was cut by 2 teams, was undrafted, and didn't go to a big conference school and that would have *already* been big. Factor in that he went to Harvard (had never even BEEN to the NCAA tournament) of all places, slept on his team mates couch, was great on camera in terms of humility and crediting his team mates, and his out-spoken Christian values (ala Tebow) and that's a media storm waiting to happen. Now magnify that by playing in NYC, on a Knicks team with a monster sized roster (over $70M), "2 Superstars" and an All Star in Tyson Chandler having one of their worst season in years and coming off losing 11 of their last 13 games with a record of 7-15 (8 games under .500) Now this guy walks and suddenly they were not only Winning but he's putting up All Star type numbers? And with Tyson Chandler and a bunch of 2nd string role players? Think about that, forgetting Lin's race and the magnifying effect of race, looking at the size of the Tebow phenomen given Tebow DID go to a top football school and there WERE very high expectations of him in the NFL, the level of "shock" factor for Lin was on a scale far beyond Tebow's situation. Yes, Lin's race fed into the dynamic and magnified it on an international level (especially in Asia) beyond what it would have been, but the other factors alone would have catapulted it into the international sphere. Remember, this was life long sports reporters saying that in their entire careers they had NEVER seen anything like this happen in ANY professional sport, let alone Basketball where guys are scouted from the age of 12. Even if he wasn't Asian, the first question everyone would be asking is HOW does a guy playing like THAT get missed at *EVERY* level of the basketball scouting process. Missed at McDonald's, missed by every major D1 basketball program, missed by 30 NBA Teams during the draft, and missed by the 2 teams that did pick him up. Sometimes I think people are so wrapped up in his race that they forget exactly how unique a narrative we're really talking about. A player of ANY race would have become a media phenomenon at LEAST as large as Tebow.
Lin almost missed out on this "fame and riches" that you're speaking of now because of his race. That's the point your missing and/or dismissing. Biggest reason Linsanity happened was because it happened in NY. An undrafted asian Harvard grad sleeping on his teammate's couch were factors for his story, but without NY it wouldn't have had the traction it did. So for you to single out race as the only factor you're minimizing his accomplishment because there were alot of factors not limited to race, and that's the part that irks fans and observers alike. Sure his popularity in Taiwan and China are directly related to his ethnicity. Which is natural, just like Yao and Dirk are popular in their mother countries. But what happened over here in the States and specifically in NY, it is unfair to discredit him by saying his success and fame are just a byproduct of his race.
whats really the debate here, of course race is a big part of Lin's commercial appeal, as was his all star level play, as was going to harvard and being undrafted and being in NY...you needed all those things to align to create the buzz that he did
Nah... the debate here is about how we all hate LOFs in this thread so we must troll them. Anything that goes against my opinion be it true or false, I must argue. Oh and did I mention I hate LOFs? :grin:
Completely agree about Robinson. I hate the PC culture of today, but comparing Robinson breaking the race barrier, and the hate that came with it, to Lin in the NBA is truly ludicrous.
I think we will have to disagree here then. I believe Linsanity blew up outside of NYC and was as big as it is, because Lin is Asian. If he were say black or white, I don't think Linsanity would have happened. Sure he might still have gone on that 2 weeks tear, but strongly believe that he wouldn't have blown up beyond NYC.
