Like a dictator, Obama threatens unprecedented gun control by executive order

What a joke you are.

 

Just wow. So you literally can't see the difference between gun enthusiasts with their known-to-be-dangerous hobby gathering and inflicting non-critical injuries on one another, on the one hand, and another disturbed kid killing people with a gun, on the other hand. That is either very sad for you and anyone reading your posts, or you are leading the troll parade -- both options lead you to the ignore territory.

Here's an analogy. If people choose to go to a snake-handling church, and one of them gets bit by a pit viper, but survives, with no organ failure, a person with a dark sense of humor might chuckle and shake their head and say something like, "SRSLY? Does Jesus communicate to this dude through venom?"

However, if a mentally ill kid takes a rattlesnake and throws it into bed with a non-snake-handler, and the snake bites and kills that person, that is a tragedy.

The differences, if you're interested: (1) outcome (minor injuries versus, you know, death), and (2) intent (accident versus, you know, murder.)

By the way, everyone, speaking of comparisons, lightning strikes are a favorite topic here, especially via some anti-change gun enthusiasts, and I have found these sensible claims interesting for perspective. I usually reply with saying "well, we tell people not to go waving metal golf clubs in a thunder storm, and we don't have the equivalent for guns." It turns out the claims are no longer so accurate.

In 2011, we recorded the lowest number of lightning fatalities on record (26.) It looks like we will have ticked up slightly to 28 fatalities in 2012. Both of these despite an increased number of thunderstorms in those years.

http://usatoday30.usatoday.com/weather/news/story/2012-01-09/lightning-deaths-storms-weather/52504754/1

http://www.lightningsafety.noaa.gov/fatalities.htm



Why the drop?
"More than anything it's due to ongoing public education efforts from the weather service to keep people from being struck by lightning," Jensenius says. (from NOAA, ahem, a government agency.)

He says there's been a noticeable change in the public attitude recently about lightning, and people now recognize a dangerous weather situation and getting to a safer place.

So when people and even the government are allowed to use knowledge and common sense to educate people, good things can happen. Not always, but sometimes.

For the record, you were more likely to die in a mass shooting in 2009 and 2012 than to die by lightning, in the US. The opposite trend is occurring for mass shootings when compared to lightning.


(red bars track deaths.)

That's why a lot of us, who are not in any way naturally "anti-gun," think it's worth a conversation. Our problem seems to be escalating, and it leaves a lot of Americans feeling unsafe in formerly safe-feeling public places. We're not talking much about lightning, because: (1) there aren't many "mass strikes" with more than five people killed at once, (2) you can reduce your risk by being smart, and (3) because lightning fatalities are dropping not rising.

The opposite is true with mass shootings.

So for future red herrings, for those who want no change whatsoever in gun laws, I suggest a focus on tornado safety, where we still have hundreds of deaths per year, much higher than in mass shootings, with tornado #s increasing every year.

 

Reason belongs nowhere near this argument son!

 

B-bob, interesting graph...but that still doesn't change that over the last 10 years there have been more deaths from getting hit by lightning than mass shooting. I see what you are doing tho. You are isolating 2012, and without a doubt that year unfortunately was a horrible spike for mass shooting death. The point I was trying to make is that mass shooting death is not the threat when you use that litmus of comparison,....and keep in mind even with the 2012 year spike included, the last 10 years accumulated in more death via lightning strike. In the years 2007 thru 2011, what you saw was a rollercoaster up, down, up, down sequence without any real trend with 2010 being among the lowest mass shooting death years in decades. Unfortunately 2012 wasn't favorable. I wish it was, but the graph you posted actually makes me feel better about discrediting mass shooting fatality trend.

Btw, great job on seeking out the info.

 

Let me get this straight. You are comparing an illogical cultist behavior to the average gun owner?

Then again, one of our favorite things to do on a Saturday night is down a bottle of JD, twirl our handguns in akimbo style and shoot bottles off the kitchen counter, while the children sleep in their room behind the kitchen wall.

 

Not good at understanding analogies are you?

 

Thanks, ROXRAN. You're correct on the issue I would call "binning." Over the ten year period, definitely, lightning is worse than mass shootings (though nowhere near gun deaths overall, for whatever that's worth.)

But I'm not meaning to call attention to one year as much as wanting to show trends. Lightning deaths are really on their way down (and the more I think about that, I'm confident it's more because people spend all their time inside now instead of some crap about safety messages, but whatever!)

Trend wise, there is an increase in mass shootings in the country, and we've just crossed the 100 casualty threshold for the first time. If you look at that ketchup and mustard graph again, check out:
'82-'93 (pre assault weapons ban)
'94-'03 (assault weapons ban)
'04-'12 (post assault weapons ban)

That shows three very different periods, just fitting the data: increase, flat, huge increase. That does not at all mean there's a cause-and-effect relationship, but I was pretty surprised to look at those three periods and how different the behavior was. Of course, this is a small sample size.

(The data was probably pretty grim in the machine gun era and prohibition, etc. Using Mother Jones own definition, you'd have to include a lot of those massive gang shootings.)

But yes, I think we all agree on this: let's hope 2012 is just a very weird spike and that we don't ever see so many deaths and casualties via mass shootings again. I for one would be happy if lightning can retain its crown.

 

I would suggest there is a huge cause and effect, but the relationship isn't with the capability of certain weapons.

What I believe is the single and most important is the "going viral" factor. In the last few years, the internet and news has brought forth an unprecedented manner of connecting everyone across the globe. What better way can a suicidal loner get that attention he so longs for than shoot up a bunch of random people and be the center of attention, and the more damage he does, the more infamous he becomes. If you go onto the internet, the story is everywhere. Facebook is littered with opinions. Forums are in debates. Most people have a smartphone, so they are always connect to the internet. If you go into the bank, or the grocery store, or the mall, or fast food restaurant, the news is right in your face as you conduct business. 15 years ago, the news wasn't in your face everywhere you went. I hate to say, but mass shootings are not going to get better.

I personally believe that banning weapons talk only makes things worse. Now everyone is buying rifles and pistols and all the ammo they can find. Forget the mass shootings. Now you have a huge uptick on inexperience gun owners with a lot of ammo. How do you think this plays out as these weapons get lost, stolen or kids find them or just inexperience people shooting off their back porch? It creates a huge panic of ignorance across the board.

While I disagree that 'assault weapons' are any more dangerous than non assault weapons, I do believe the military look gives these broken-minded people a false psychological sense of power. The regular style semi-automatic rifles are just not as menacing looking as a rifle with all the ineffective military features.

 

Five Injured in Accidental Shootings at Gun Shows on "Gun Appreciation Day"
By Daniel Politi, Posted Sunday, Jan. 20, 2013, at 11:52 AM ET



As thousands of pro-gun activists held rallies across the United States on Saturday, accidental shootings at three different guns shows illustrated the obvious: Being around lots of people carrying firearms can be a tad dangerous. The Associated Press compiles the reports from North Carolina, Indiana and Ohio.

In Raleigh, a shotgun went off when the owner was taking it out of its case at a security checkpoint, injuring three people. In Indianapolis, a 54-year-old man appears to have accidentally shot himself in the hand as he was leaving a gun show. And in Ohio, a dealer was checking out a purchase when he pulled the trigger by accident and injured his friend. Although he had removed the magazine from the weapon, a round remained in the chamber.

Meanwhile, thousands of pro-gun advocates gathered in state capitals to “send a loud and clear message to Congress and President Obama” against gun control. Organized by a Washington, D.C.-based Republican consulting firm called Political Media, the rally came days after President Obama unveiled new proposals for gun control. The “Gun Appreciation Day” is modeled after the “Chick-Fil-A Appreciation Day” of last summer, when thousands lined up for chicken sandwiches to show their opposition to marriage equality, reports CBS News.

 

Thanks for the thoughtful post. I agree with you strongly on part (A), much less on (B), and somewhat on (C).

On (B), you're totally correct that the hysteria is flooding more guns and ammo (interestingly, I mistyped that as "emo" the first time. :grin into our communities. But that happened with the election of Obama in 2008 anyway. It happened to an extent before the ban of 1994. Smart buy-back programs and a consistent policy moving forward (dream on, I know) would combat this near-term uptick, I believe.

Cheers.

 

You mean 16, after Obama gets elected for a 3rd time after Hilary is done.

 

In all seriousness, Hillary for 8, then Julio Castro for 8 more.

 

Compromise, make it 20, with Hilary for 8, Obama for 4, then Castro for 8.

 

Hopefully no liberal teachers will get these children for terrorist activities there...

 

Do we know the teacher in the bubble gun incident was a liberal?

 

Might have been a conservative I'm sure.

 

I really wish we could see B-Bobs chart showing only the mass killings where an "assault weapon" was used. I'm pretty sure we would stop talking about trends and start talking about anomalies.

New gun control legislation will have no effect on crime.

 

And countless clinical psychologists have come on record saying our lust for knowledge and glorification of these killers is what triggers more attacks. Not guns, sitting in a closet. There is a reason Sandy Hook happened just a week after the mall shooting. We made this nameless nobody, into a demigod. Congrats society.

How much news have you absorbed about the Sandy Hook shooting? How many cans of coke and Toyota Camry's have been sold because of those kids death? A lot of them, because the populous views the pundits for hours on end as they "expertly" dissect every minute detail of the crime.

 

Okay, let's go attack the First Amendment to save the Second.

in all seriousness, assigning blame to the media does not preclude blame for loose access to guns.

 

Does the crazy kid deserve any blame? Cause we have a lot of laws against what he did that didn't really do anything to stop him. Maybe some laws that single out the "scary looking guns" will help. He probably never would have done this if he only had access to the nice guns.

What a joke... that isn't funny.