Lieberman: "There is no humanitarian crisis in the Gaza Strip"

I get that you don't want a Jewish Israeli state to exist. So in that instance, the path of destruction is fine, just like destroying segregation and destroying apartheid.

Some of us, however, are interested in the continuation of Jewish ethnic state sitting next to a Palestinian/Muslim state. For us, apartheid and segregation needed to be destroyed, but Israel does not. Again, I get that you think the only way for justice to be done is for Israel to be destroyed and every capitalist imperialist colonial invader to be sent back to wherever they came from. The total absolutism of everything as it exists in your mind is undoubtedly very invigorating. In there, somewhere, land reform in Zimbabwe is a glowing success, for instance.

 

I am not at all opposed to a Jewish Israeli state, however, I think that needs to exist without enforcing apartheid within Israel and the occupied territories currently. A good way to end that is a Palestinian state next door.

 

I absolutely agree. And my point is that nonstop serial confrontation with the Israelis is like engaging in a tug-of-war with a donkey that you want to lead to water. It feels good and seems right but is counter productive. If you want the donkey to go to the water, you sometimes have to stop tugging on it's reins and let it think that it is the one who wanted to go to the water.

If on the other hand, you want to butcher the donkey, you don't need its acquiescence and violent confrontation, via one of those Anton Chigurh pneumatic cattle killers to the forehead, is an appropriate course of action.

 

I agree with that. I wish someone like Rabin would be elected. The world needs more people like Rabin and less people like Netanjahu, Erdogan and such wannabe-"hardliners".

 

Yes, we are in agreement.

 

Just curious but what has erdrogan done to become a hardliner? If anything, the US would take a guy like Erdrogan running Islamic nations over any current government.

 

They are not celebrating, they are protesting for Israel right to check the import that flows into Gaza.

1) On this particular ship they weren't peace activists, but al-Qa'ida activists. In a few hours they would have entered Israeli national waters. Israel choose to attack early, maybe because they wanted to use the night as cover, or to use the element of surprise to prevent casualties.

And the videos show that they had been armed with more than metal rods.
You are using word games in here, the soldiers were nearly lynched by those poor Jihad soldiers .

2)Those women and infants were never in the line of fire they were abroad the other ships and they were released or will be release into Gaza afterwards, uninjured.

3)Yep and trying to enter Israeli national water without permission is legal.What was too much? they didn't shoot one bullet before boarding that ship.

Those activists were on their way to preform an illegal action and BTW IIRC there is a section in the international law that allows a country to act before a ship enters its' territorial waters, it should be checked if the current situation does fit into this section conditions.

Yes they defended themselves legally by trying to kill armed soldiers that didn't intent to kill them but to inspect their ship cargo. Legal or not legal, they brought that on themselves.

That isn't the case, maybe if I was driving to your house with full gas on a semi trailer stating that I want to trespass and hurt your property...
I am sure you would try to react before I will be close to your territory.

They are the current democratic elected government in Gaza. Israel also sees Hizballa as a terror group, but during the last time it acted against its' control in Lebanon, the results were grieve for both sides. This is really annoying because I am sure that if the IDF will totally destroy those tunnels or enter the strip trying to disarm Hamas, everyone will blame Israel for excessive use of force and the starving and killing of civilians or something alike...

I don't believe Egypt will ever destroy those tunnels utterly, they are using those tunnels to get political influence in Gaza. So every once a while they are floating them or starting to build this so called barrier(There is a reason the last report on the barrier was a few months ago).I think that if Hamas is hurting their regime, it is their right to close up their borders temporarily.But on general, The only reason they don't let Gazans enter Egypt is the fear that the refugees will storm Egypt, and they also want to keep the region quiet so they are trying to at least limit weapon smuggling.

They wouldn't block it on general, they just want to inspect it...

The west bank is not totally walled up, thanks to Abu Mazen moderate approach they are actually in one of the best economic states I recall they have ever been. In this case the wall has only prevented the violence and nothing more.

My uncle is driving there once a week to buy an exported tax free caviar, and many of them are working in Israel legally . Once in a while, their government is showing the extremists that it acts against "The evil Zionist regime" while actually, behind the scenes, they are meeting with Israelis tycoons planning their future country economic developments(I can't find English versions of this article).

For example,two weeks ago, Abu Mazen started a campaign for laws banning Israeli settlements products, to keep his popularity up and to keep pushing his people far from violence to legitimate forms of protesting:
http://www.ynetnews.com/articles/0,7340,L-3891081,00.html
(I really recommend this article)

In this case I believe the situation is so good for both sides that no one cares enough to talk and to make a peace treaty (and starting to give extremest political fuel for violence). The USA tried to force both sides to talk and Abu Mazen just gave Bibi a condition he couldn't agree to, just to begin talking...

This is just to show you that Israel isn't fighting those poor Palestinians in Gaza for the mere bloodshed. Here you can see we are not hurting the west bank economy or population because Abu Mazen is moderate and doesn't support violence.

 

Maybe its not really israel itself right now, but the world's patience is getting very thin and they are treading on thin ice.

This current government/ leader is terrible. They need urgent change and need to demonstrate more restraint.

We have been giving you guys the latest technology over the last 50 yrs, stop using them like there is no tommorrow.

 

http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/20100602/ap_on_re_mi_ea/ml_israel_raid_reconstruction


The video's speak for themselves, these were not "activists" trying to help the people of Gaza.

 

Israel messed up. The IDF landed on a civilian boat in international waters in the middle of the night, fight ensued and the commandos killed 10 activists and imprisoned the rest, violating NATO rules in doing so.

Will NATO retaliate? Unlikely, but the point remains that Israel was caught red-handed killing innocent civilians from its allies' countries.

If videos speak for themselves...

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Not sure how the videos prove that.

Again it comes down to a group delivering aid is in international waters. An armed force known to be hostile to those delivering the food storms the vessels.

It isn't surprising that one of the vessels would offer some resistance.

I still haven't heard why the IDF couldn't wait until the delivery vessels reached the blockade and then searched them nice and legal like.

 

Israel took away all the electronic devices these people had, obviously we are going to see what they want us to see now, as they control the editing of any video that will be released. Don't know why people expect anyone to be swayed one way or the other with these short blurry clips.

 

But you think Erdogan acts in the interest of Turks when he goes to Germany and tells Turkish immigrants that "integration is a sin" (among other blunders committed by this islamist)? What about Hamas? Do you consider them to be acting in the interest of Palestinians by sponsoring terrorism?

 

Erdogan was quoted in this thread for attacking Israel harshly. Hamas is part of the reason why Israel has to be so cautious. You constantly criticize Israel in this thread but seem rather blind on the other eye. There's your answer.

 

Because it would be quite stupid to start searching uncooperative ships when they are about 12 nautical miles away from their destination. Plus you would have Hamas, with machine guns and rocket launchers, in their little boats speeding to the flotilla's rescue. Sounds like a brilliant idea to get more people killed.

 

You think Hamas would be brave enough to pull that off? I have some fisheries I want to sell you off the Gulf of Mexico while we are at it.