I wouldn't call anyone an ignorant idealogue necessarily, but the point of emotion is spot on. It is ultimately at the heart of so many of these threads & issues. "I don't trust scientists/CBO/data/politicians/reasonable arguments/logic... My gut just tells me that a negative hold-the-horses view is somehow more correct for all proposed changes to the status quo that aren't suggested by my preferred political group." It's interesting, but it seems to be pervasive.
That's about health care reform as a whole - not the public option. Every public option that's been discussed is based on a self-sustaining model. You'd have to change the law and create a new public option model in order to make it taxpayer subsidized. Lieberman's complaints don't stand up to the facts.
To go further on this - Lieberman is fully supportive of the rest of the health care plan. That's the part that actually costs all the money. So for him to be concerned by the cost but OK with the the parts of the legislation that actually incur the costs is laughable. Simply put, he's found a topic where he's the 60th vote and he wants to feel important. That's all this is. He's making up the reasons as he goes.
Since it is de rigueur to repost the same quote repeatedly. I think this is the most cogent point Turncoat Joe is trying to make, so I will repeat it: "That the insurance industry and lobby that line my pockets and got me elected the last time around reeaaaalllyy don't want healthcare reform."
And how could one hold that view without being both an ideologue ("guv'ment = bad!") and ignorant (willfully or otherwise)?
Hey, not knocking you. It's just not a productive phrase, IMHO. poster 1: You are an ignorant idealogue. poster 2: m'kay. I see your point, and I will change. poster 1: I am so good I can hardly believe it sometimes. poster 2: yes, that seems right somehow.
So fascinating...9999 and he's away on an "important" project. Hmmm, what was his last post - i don't have search capabilities. I must admit, I find TJ fascinating. You know, from a scientific point of view. MojoMan is very TJ-like.
Look, there are literally millions of people waiting for operations, or pain pills, seizure meds, psychiatric meds etc. They could give a damn how it was done and will raise hell if the GOP tries to uninsure them again.
I'm going to agree with Mr. Clutch and Lieberman here that these estimates seem vague and are also predicated on some assumptions about how much health care reform could reduce costs. I'm also skeptical regarding Obama's promise to not sign any bill that is adds to the deficit. Such promises have been made by other President and given how much is at stake politically I doubt he would be willing to veto a health care bill that makes it to his desk.
That's a great point and is one reason why I'm pretty skeptical about Lieberman's motives here. I still am skeptical though about a public option being revenue neutral especially if it is successful (a lot of people sign on.)
