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Lidge....

Discussion in 'Houston Astros' started by gunn, Jul 6, 2008.

  1. A_3PO

    A_3PO Member

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    Good for Lidge, but I wouldn't be surprised if he has problems again. I like him a lot and hope he does well. Unlike Billy Wagner, this is one ex-Astro I can cheer for.
     
  2. The Cat

    The Cat Member

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    Here's what I'm asking for, guys. Let's compare two major Lidge blasts:

    1.) Pujols -- October 2005
    Hanging slider. That simple. It didn't bite, and it was up. Almost letter high. This is the kind of mistake pitch that would potentially symbolize a mental error. Pujols crushes it. Whatever magical "aura" existed at that point was in Lidge's favor -- his record against the Cards was outstanding. Guess what? The "aura" and all that crap didn't matter, because Lidge made a mistake, and a good hitter hit it out.

    2.) Braun -- August 2007
    Astros had to have this series to have any hopes of a late-season comeback -- of course they didn't get it, based on this game. 1-1 count, and Lidge deals what he calls his "best slider." It breaks, big time. Dives to Braun's feet. Out of the strike zone. Exactly where Lidge wanted to throw it, and almost impossible for a hitter to even hit. Braun golfs it out. What "mistake" did Lidge make? He did exactly what he wanted to do, and neither he nor the coaches could find a single thing wrong with it. I don't see where the mental error is, though if one of you does, fill me in.

    This is what I'm talking about. Take me through pitches. Guys, not every pitcher who gives up a home run is a headcase or has mental issues. It's just part of baseball, and sometimes hitters get the better end of it. That's why it's a game. Unless you can point to a specific error made on the pitch, it's much more likely to simply be a product of the game and a hitter having a good at-bat than it is to be some sort of mental collapse.
     
  3. H-Town Info

    H-Town Info Member

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    I'm glad Lidge is doing well up in Philly and he certainly wouldn't had done it here with the Astros. He is also one of the few former Astros that I would root for when not playing the astros.
     
  4. Major Malcontent

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    I am sorry that I give the impression of being insulting ,to Sabermetricians, some of them (not The Cat) are so arrogant in their "education" of people who have been watching games their whole lives I guess I take a little too much pleasure in pointing out when their projections don't pan out.

    Most of my observation about Lidge and his mental mistakes are from within an inning. The first extra base hit or bloop single might have been luck but Lidge in his bad stretches did not seem to recover and continue to make good pitches. He did have good stretches, even post Pujols where this was not the case

    I liked Lidge, he was the epitome of a stand up guy, seemingly. I don't think he was "ruined" by Pujols, or that he would never be effective as an Astro. I do think he benefited enormously from the change in scenery, but thats the kind of thing that can't be proven only speculated about.
     
  5. BigSherv

    BigSherv Member

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    I am happy for him.

    He never blamed anyone, always answered questions when things were not going great. he is a quality guy and now that he turned his game around deserves every thing he gets,
     
  6. J.R.

    J.R. Member

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    Hey everyone, how is Jim Hickey doing with them Rays? Sorry, its random, but why did we let this guy go?
     
  7. MadMax

    MadMax Member

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    I've met a few pro athletes in my lifetime, and he was by far....way far...the nicest....the most engaging.
     
  8. DaDakota

    DaDakota Balance wins
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    Good for Lidge, sometimes you have to leave your comfort zone to really acheive.....glad he has turned it around.

    DD
     
  9. kaleidosky

    kaleidosky Member

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    It speaks volumes that 95% of the people here are still happy for the guy when he had some serious issues here for a year or 2, we got rid of him, and he's succeeding for another NL team.. I feel like that's rare in sports. People even wanted to see Dream fail in Toronto so that they could prove they were right.

    But then again, we've often had guys like that on the Astros.. guys you just want to root for. Cammy when he went to the Pads, DK when he went to the Rockies.. (and let's not speak too much of it, but if Bidge had ever gone to Colorado.. then yeah, him too of course)
     
  10. thacabbage

    thacabbage Contributing Member

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    I could never bring myself to wish failure upon that guy. The handful of times he took that mound against the Cardinals in 2004 were probably the only time I've ever gotten chills run down my spine watching a sporting event.
     
  11. msn

    msn Member

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    I read something about how some of his off-field stuff was "embarrassing" the Astros. I have no link (as I don't remember where I read it), nor did the article cite any examples or sources (ahh, so it MUST have been the Chronicle).

    But, at any rate, for what (little) it's worth, I read that somewhere recently.
     
  12. DaDakota

    DaDakota Balance wins
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    Well the fact that Cooper can't get a starting pitcher to come to a meeting is embarrasing to me.

    DD
     
  13. T Rex

    T Rex Member

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    I think most Houston sports fans are happy that Lidge turned it around......though we're disappointed it wasn't here. Great guy who did it in one of the toughest environment's around in Philly so it appears he can handle the pressure (so far). Kudos on the big bucks.

    That being said, that kind of money for a closer is crazy. He's averaged around 78 innings a year for the past 5 years prior to this season. He's pitched 36 innings so far this year so he's just about on the same pace. And yes, I know his ERA and WHIP are crazy good this year.

    But still, $13.5 million a year for roughly 80 innings a year??? Is there that much of a premium on the guys that finish games? Compare that to a Santana, Zambrano, Hudson or any of the top money starting pitchers who are giving you 220+ IP and it just doesn't add up.
     
    #53 T Rex, Jul 7, 2008
    Last edited: Jul 7, 2008
  14. dream34shake

    dream34shake Rookie

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    Taylor Buchholz's stats this year: 1.73 ERA, 0.79 WHIP with 15 holds in 37 appearances...Recently he gave up 2 runs against the Marlins and his ERA skyrocketed from 1.36 to 1.77
    Just pointing this out but what A BEAST, had no idea he was putting up these kind of numbers
     
  15. dream34shake

    dream34shake Rookie

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    Dan Wheeler's stats: 1.82 ERA, 0.91 WHIP, 20 holds in 39 appearances
    Chad Qualls' stats: 3.38 ERA, 1.20 WHIP, 14 holds in 43 appearances
    Matt Albers' stats: 3.49 ERA, 1.33 WHIP in 28 appearances
    Dennis Sarfate's stats: 3.18 ERA, 43 K's in 38 apperances
    And everyone knows Brad Lidge's insane numbers this year...
    compared to
    Oscar Villareal: 5.02 ERA, 12 HR's given up, Not on the team!
    Jose Valverde: 4.01 ERA, 22 saves, 5 blown saves in 42 apperances
    Geoff Geary: 2.60 ERA, 1.27 WHIP, 1 HR given up in 30 apperances(the bright spot)

    Basically give us our old pitchers back!
     
  16. DaDakota

    DaDakota Balance wins
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    I see it differently....I want Dierker back.

    DD
     
  17. bobrek

    bobrek Politics belong in the D & D

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    Qualls ERA (May - July) = 5.70...he also has 6 blown saves.

    Matt Albers is on the DL with a torn labrum. He has elected to try rehab, but may end up needing surgery.

    Byrdak has been pretty solid for the Astros.
     
  18. lalala902102001

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    Good for him.

    Lidge would never have regained form if he stayed in Houston.
     
  19. msn

    msn Member

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    Agreed. Though I'm not with you on wanting Dierk back.
     
  20. JunkyardDwg

    JunkyardDwg Member

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    I second that notion.
     

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