Libertarian Primer

Are there ever a functioning libertarian country in the modern world? Somalia does not count as one.

 

I don't always vote Libertarian, but when I do, I vote Ron F'ing Swanson.

 

Please explain if you would, instead of just declaring, how libertarian economics differs from that of say Ronald Reagan or Santorum with their constant talks of the "free" market and the evils of government regulation.

Again, if you would explain why Ron Paul took close to $2 million dollars from the founder of Paypal when he assisted big government in trying to shut down wikileaks which is dedicated to freedom of information for the public, which is needed to hold government and (yes, libertarians!) corporations accountable?

 

duplicate

 

I guess the fundamental flawed assumption behind all these utopian global makeovers -in fact the problems with large portions of economics - is the idea that people behave rationally and logically and in their best interests.

If anybody really believes that self interest rules the day, I'd highly recommend listening to this BBC interview with Nobel laureate Daniel Khaneman on behavioral economics.

 

whats so unique about that? democrats dont have a consensus on what it means to be 'democrat'. black people dont have a consensus on what it means to be 'black'. christians dont have any consensus on what it means to be 'christian'.

thats why i find the premise of the thread so silly. this multi-part extremely long, rambling interview w/ an anonymous libertarian. who cares? why does this persons opinion warrant a thread? its the ultimate strawman argument. just a ridiculous caricature put out there to point at and say "this is how libertarians think! libertarians explain yourselves!"

i agree - a totally unregulated 'free market' is not the solution. but an end to corporate welfare and the undue influence of the military industrial complex would be a good start in the right direction. holding the wall street crooks who brought down our economy responsible for their actions would be a good start (http://www.rollingstone.com/politics/news/why-isnt-wall-street-in-jail-20110216). an end to the practice of allowing corporations to write their own laws and regulations and hand them off to our elected officials would help. stop allowing the regulators to do stuff like go out and have sex and snort coke w/ the people they are supposed to be regulating. remove the caps on liabilities that our elected officials granted to companies like BP. these would be good too!

 

jo mama or any other libertarian,

In the context of the interview, in your opinion, what is the difference between govt run security and corporate run security? One is being paid through an invoice and the other through taxes.

I know the question is very simplistic but if you, or anyone else, could humor me.

 

the fact that you need someone to explain to you how ron paul does not represent mainstream GOP economics shows how pointless it would be to even try to answer your query.

again, you are showing how totally misinformed you are. or you are just straight up lying. probably a combination of both...show me a link saying "Ron Paul took close to $2 million dollars from the founder of Paypal".

as for paul, he has actually defended wikileaks on the house floor and called them "heroic". where does your obama stand on wikileaks?

 

i cant speak in the context of the interview b/c the only parts of it ive read are parts that others link, and even then it really doesnt make any sense. i have no idea what the hell that person is talking about. i clicked on the link and started to read...i was leery when the person said they wanted to remain anonymous, but after a few questions i realized how stupid the conversation was so i quit reading.

i know that doesnt answer your question, but in the context of this interview id rather deal in specifics and real-life examples.

and again, why does anyone care what this anonymous, random person says. it would be one thing if it was just a few questions, but this long ass 6 part interview? the fact that anyone would spend time reading it...its so ridiculous that its funny.

 

One of the basic unwordly fallacies of libertarianism/conservative economics for the 1%.

Folks who say stuff like this come off like richy rich Romney, heartless or at best so in their heads without grounding in concrete reality it appears startling to others outside their ideology.

Yeah, young street prostitutes in third world contries are free to choose whether to suck *icks or eat. Their choice. As Milton Friedman one of the patron saints of market fundies, though as far as I know he was never so extreme as to call himself a libertarian had a book and popular tv program called "Free to Choose" which was very popular around 1980, and we had old smiley "Morning in America" Ronald Reagan. Many younger folks can't remember back when we didn't have beggars at practically ever major intersection before this ideology took hold, middle class kids could go to college and even professional schools without being debt slaves, and we beganm the extreme transfer of wealth to the 1% etc.

 

Exerpts from an interesting article showing the Kochs and a large southern bank as well as wealthy hedge fund guys funding the libertarian movemtment, "free enterprise" professors at universities and the distribution of Atlas Shrugged.
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While it has been well known that the oil billionaire, Charles Koch, has been funneling tens of millions of dollars through his foundation into economic programs at public universities and mandating approval of faculty and curriculum in some instances, it has not heretofore been reported that a sweeping partnership in these programs has sprung up between Koch and the southern banking giant, BB&T, the latter corporation mandating that Ayn Rand’s book Atlas Shrugged is taught and distributed to students.

Koch is based in Wichita, Kansas; BB&T in Winston-Salem, North Carolina. An email request to the Charles G. Koch Foundation for information on how this partnership evolved went unanswered, despite Koch’s copious web site claiming to want to set the record straight on his past funding schemes.

Raising more eyebrows is the discovery that the so-called populous craze for Ayn Rand’s seminal work, Atlas Shrugged, is also being financed by a decidedly non-populist pact of deep-pocketed hedge fund operators.

http://www.counterpunch.org/2012/02...rand-hedge-fund-money-teams-up-with-koch-bbt/

 

glynch has got to be the biggest hypocrite/partisan hack on this board. he seems to view everything thru the prism of republican vs. democrat.

all this focus on the koch brothers, but no mention of soros. the paypall guy is bad for funding a ron paul super-pac, but no mention of bill maher and his $1 million dollar donation to an obama super-pac. we have all these lobbyists funding obama super-pacs, but glynch doesnt want to talk about that. he criticizes paul b/c super pacs are being set up in his name, but no mention of obama and his super pacs, despite the fact that obama was previously critical of them.

his hypocrisy and partisanship was most evident in his views on jimmy carters military service vs. george hw bushs. check out this thread...

http://bbs.clutchfans.net/showthread.php?t=203807&highlight=carter+bush+military

here is glynch ignoring the fact that george hw bush was in the military.

when he gets called out on this here is his reply...he demeans bush for his "rank" and says his only accomplishment was being "shot down".

here is glynchs reply to my defense of bush's service...this is one of the most pathetic displays of partisanship ive seen on here...he says its ok to "attack" bushs military service b/c he is republican. personally, i think ghw bush should be in prison, but i would never denigrate his military service like the snob glynch does - i dont care what his political affiliation is - like jfk, he was a new england rich boy who went and put his ass on the line and by all accounts served w/ valor...how do you not respect that?

carter was career military w/ 6 years of service but george hw bush was not b/c he only served 4. and the snob glynch says that since he was of a "relatively low rank" his service is not as good as carters.

both my grandpas served in WWII, but they were lowly sergeants...i guess the snob glynch would say their service is not as good as carters since they were of a "relatively low rank". my grandpa martin got shot in the gut trying to cross the rhine, but i guess the snob glynch would say that was his only accomplishment.

 

i guess not. ive never read atlas shrugged, so maybe thats my problem. and this whole "conversation" is more philosophical rather than practical/real world. aside from the fact that its a total strawman argument, thats the other problem i have. id rather talk real, tangible issues. this "code name cain" strawman is going off on some weird tangents that have no bearing on the real world.

this "code name cain" seems be saying that there should be no government at all - no police, no military, no national defense - i dont know any libertarians who actually advocate this position. as soon as "code name cain" started talking about sending criminals to the sahara or antarctica i pretty much stopped reading.

it comes off like a bad caricature. to hold this anonymous person up as representative of libertarian thought reeks of desperation. again, this is no more than a strawman argument. to post this long interview of some anonymous libertarian and demand others to explain it is just silly. again, who is "code name cain" and why are they worth a 6 part "interview"? are people actually reading this entire "interview"? why?

true that.

 

http://www.politico.com/news/stories/0212/73074.html


PayPal co-founder Peter Thiel donated another $1.7 million in January to the super PAC supporting Ron Paul’s presidential bid, according to documents released Monday.

Thiel, a billionaire who runs the hedge fund Clarium Capital, has donated a total of $2.6 million to the pro-Paul group Endorse Liberty since it was founded on Dec. 20.

 

Firstly, Endorse Liberty isn't the Super Pac associated with the campaign - RevolutionPac is. So even if Paul asked them to return the money, the Endorse Liberty people would still probably keep it. Secondly, do you have any evidence that Peter Thiel was still in charge of PayPal in 2010? Or that he supported PayPal's actions against Assange? From what I understand, he sold it to eBay in 2002. And lastly,

<iframe width="420" height="315" src="http://www.youtube.com/embed/GDp1izlMQT0" frameborder="0" allowfullscreen></iframe>

 

I'm calling bull**** that the answers are steeped in Libertarian thought. Who the hell is Hans-Hermann Hoppe? Wikipedia says he is a libertarian anarcho-capitalist philosopher.

So some guy writes a satirical piece about an anacho-capitalist philosopher's views, and you call it a Libertarian primer. Hoppe's philosophy and Andrew Dittmer's satire have nothing to do with the beliefs of that vast majority of Libertarians.

 

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Not really. I frequently criticize Obama and even Dems as a whole. It is you who can admit no failing of libertarianism or Ron Paul. I guess I and the other posters on this thread which is about libertarianism have a hit a nerve.

Well let me clear that up. I am against Citizen's United and Obama is to blame for taking the money. Will you join me in denouncing all superpacs and also join me in the extremely anti-libertarian idea of limiting how much a rich person can donate to a campaign through any mechanism whatsoever. Say $50 so that the little people who you want to defend from snobs like you allege me to be can compete in the market place of ideas?

Well let me quote from that old thread, too.

glynch

I think you can see that contrary to your thesis I took a shot at Obama for being a warmonger. I was being unreasonably stubborn in the thread, but see I your claims of me being an elititst as being a stretch and a divesionary ad hominem attack.

Well all of us little guys can throw around charges of being elitist.

From the thread.

glynch

QUOTE]both my grandpas served in WWII, but they were lowly sergeants...i guess the snob glynch would say their service is not as good as carters since they were of a "relatively low rank". my grandpa martin got shot in the gut trying to cross the rhine, but i guess the snob glynch would say that was his only accomplishment.:rolleyes Well let me say thanks for your granpa's good service. [/QUOTE]

Your grandparents certainly did good service and if you felt my post somehow persoanlly demeaning instead of some sort of rhetorical device, I am sorry. I really don't see what it has to do with whether libertarianism is a worthwhile ideology for running the country for folks like your grandparent, you or I.

 

Yeah, sure does.