Michael Jordan coming out of college wasn't going to be the greatest player of all time or anything close to it, so Michael Jordan wasn't part of some marketing machine at the time. Coming out of college, he was considered a guy with great dunking ability, but nothing like what he turned out to be. Stern had no reason to make him the Golden Child anymore than he did Magic Johnson. Magic was in LA, Magic had the charisma, Magic had the talent. If MJ got special treatment, he earned that treatment from day 1 because he was obliterating the league from the very beginning - before he even had a rep. Stern hopped on the MJ bandwagon more than MJ benefited from the Stern bandwagon. Without Stern there would still be Nike, Gatorade, Hanes, etc. Greatness brings on endorsements and hype. Some of you guys are blinded by hindsight. One of the comments I saw above was that he had the perfect name. Geez. If he hadn't been as great as he was, the name wouldn't have been household. If you asked a Houstonian in the early 80's if a guy named Akeem Olajuwon would be one of the greatest centers ever, they'd be like "what?" Jordan had the killer instinct of a Bird combined with the charisma and ability of a Magic Johnson. He had their leadership qualities as well. He was the uber-player. When you have a player like Bird saying Jordan was "God in sneakers", you know you're dealing with greatness. The argument of who was the best of all time is debatable, but to deny Jordan a right to that title based upon preferential treatment is asinine. The rep was created by the player, not the player by the rep.
I made the reference to show that aspect of MJ's greatness manifested itself strongly very early in his NBA career. Magic was also a great leader, perhaps comparable to MJ. The circumstances of his rookie year were a lot different from MJ's. Magic had other great players on his team and certainly he wasn't the dominant personality that MJ was. He was also a better player as a rookie than MJ. Magic's leadership was different in style. He focused on keeping other players happy. MJ's personality was much more dominant and he didn't care who was happy. Others had to adjust to him, not the other way. Dennis Rodman is one example. After weirding out on the Spurs for a couple of years (he did average 17 rpg but he totally destroyed their team), Weirdo went to the Bulls, found his place in orbit around the Great One and won 3 more championships. I don't think Magic could have done that. In fact, Weirdo played two more productive years after leaving MJ but reverted back to destroying his team's chemistry by flaking off so much. I loved Magic too. As someone said, "Magic was the only player I've seen who could completely dominate a game and only score 3 points".
Excellent point. I counter with this thought: (assuming you are talking about Wilt, which, I can't think of anyone else that was even romotly close to doing that so, this was pretty much useless) the only other person remotely close to Wilt's size was Russel, who did not really contain him all that much. Comparativly, Dream, Shaq, Ewing, Robinsin...etc. had to battle against each other every single night. I would argue that Dream or Shaq was a great C based on the fact that they had to face tougher competition on a nightly basis so that when they dominated (which they did), it was all the more impressive. Just me, interested on your thoughts about that.
You guys forget one thing. In the beginning, Jordan built his popularity with his flash, dunks, and the NBA built him up in that way because everyone wanted to see him. He was never called "great" at this time. Jordan built his legacy by running his team, being a leader, intimidating everyone he played against, and hitting all those game winning shots, playing sick, and willing his team to win 6 championships. Those of you who don't know basketball remember the flash, the dunks, the wild acrobatic shots when they think of MJ. Those of us who know basketball remember the way he took over games under pressure and hit clutch shot after clutch shot and won 6 championships. I'd be willing to say that 90% of those who played pro or college basketball in their life will say jordan was the greatest ever, while 50% of arm chair basketball players and these dorks who write articles will talk about wilt, or oscar robinson, or magic being the greatest. Hell, even magic himself admits that MJ is the greatest ever. I've heard Barkley, kenny smith, etc.. all say he is the greatest ever without question.
http://www.usatoday.com/sports/basketball/nba/2003-02-06-dupree-team_x.htm Jordan wears 'greatest' crown By David DuPree, USA TODAY This should settle it once and for all: Michael Jordan, who will play in his final NBA All-Star Game on Sunday, is the greatest basketball player ever. Any scale that is used to measure a player's greatness is flawed and open to interpretation, but USA TODAY factored in every aspect of the game to come up with the greatest player and the all-time All-Star team of greatest players. Just as in All-Star voting, the greatest team was selected by points at the positions, not overall points. Jordan, reluctantly, is the man. "It's truly an accomplishment, and I take it in a prideful way," Jordan says of his "greatest" title. "But I don't accept it in the sense that I haven't played against the other great players. I've played against some good players and great players in my era, but I don't get to play against the other guys in other eras. "I think that's unfair to those guys as well as to myself to say I'm the best that ever played because I never played against Wilt Chamberlain. I never played against Jerry West," Jordan says. "I respect the older players and if it wasn't for them, there is no way I could have become the player that I am. I've watched Jerry West. I've watched Walter Davis, David Thompson. They influenced my game. They've got to have a piece of what I've accomplished." Magic Johnson says there is no debate. "Michael is the greatest player ever, and Bill Russell is the greatest winner ever and always will be," says Johnson, who joins Jordan in the backcourt on the first team. Also on the first team are forwards Julius Erving and Larry Bird and Chamberlain at center. The second team: guards Bob Cousy and Oscar Robertson, Russell at center and forwards John Havlicek and Rick Barry. The top 10 players from each decade, picked subjectively, were awarded a varying number of points in 10 categories, ranging from individual statistical titles in the NBA and ABA to All-Star appearances to championships.
Jordan will never touch Ali's greatness. Ali did things that changed the world, Michael won some ball games.
Michael Jordan is the reason why basketball is so popular around the world today. His greatness should not be questioned.
I didn't read the article. I just know that Michael Jordan was AMMM-AAA-ZZZZ-ING. I don't really have any memory of seeing him play. Well, except this one time he passed it off Majerle's back in the Finals. haha I need to see some footage of him on ESPN Classic. Anyways, Michael Jordan probably is the best player to ever play the game, so there.
Jordan was definitely a top-notch player. Top 10, no doubt. But the greatest? I like what the writer said about the "chicken-egg" debate. Jordan had great players on his team. Did Jordan make them great or were they already good to begin with? Maybe both? Is Jordan named the GOAT because he's an amazing player or because of the media blitz David Stern unleashed? Maybe both? Sure, if anyone says Jordan is the GOAT, I'd think, "that's a reasonable answer." But for people to call other people stupid for thinking Jordan was not the GOAT is idiotic. It's an opinion, not a fact.
OK on the subject of Wilt Chamberlein I'm not really an expert but since you are interested. Here are some centers Wilt played Bill Russell Walt Ballemy Nate Thurmond Willis Reed(MVP) Wes Unseld(MVP) Elvin Hayes Jerry Lucas later Kareem I believe all of them are in the HOF. Granted none of them probably is really 7 feet, and only a few were around when Wilt scored 50, but that's a lot of big names and quite a few are bigger than Russell. And seriously when Shaq was scoring 30 a game against, like, Aron Williams, it wasn't much less spectacular than when he scored 30 vs say the Dream. It's just great when you hit that kind of numbers. and I mean when a smaller guy guards Jordan, like John Starks or Kelvin Johson or Reggie Miller or Gary Payton etc etc it didn't make him less great. Plus how many teams were back then ? like 8-10. Dream does not play the likes of Shaq on a nightly basis. He plays Shaq twice a year ! While Wilt plays Russell or some other HoFer every week ! or like every two games.
Starting centers for 1967 (Sans Wilt): Bill Russell (6'9), Walter Wesley (6'11), Walt Bellamy (6'11), Leroy Ellis (6'10), Nate Thurmond (6'11), Zelmo Beaty (6'9), Darrall Imhoff (6'10), Erwin Mueller (6'8), Reggie Harding (7'0) Russell was one of the shorter guys.
I know basketball, and what I remember is that there's no way Jordan wins all those titles without Pippen.
I hope that people do realize that Jordan beat some of the best basketball talents that this league has ever seen to win those championships. Yes, Wilt was probably more dominant and Russell won more championships, but they played in different eras. Considering the talent level and competitiveness of the league in the 90s, I'd say that Jordan's achievements were simply amazing. You may say that Jordan would not have done it without Pippen and a strong supporting cast, but the same can be said with the main players on every other championship team, and we sure know that Pippen by himself could not win anything. More importantly, Jordan was the greatest basketball ambassador of all time. He made this game popular outside the U.S; he made basketball a true global sport. Nobody would have written an article like this during Jordan's heydays because it would be laughable. It's easy to say that someone wasn't that great a few years after he retired. Michael Jordan is the greatest player to ever play this game.
And Magic never wins titles without his all-star lineup. And Bird never wins titles without his all-star lineup. Hell even Russell had some studs on his team. I don't know when the last 1-man team won a title. Maybe Duncan? But even he needed help. Jordan is the greatest to play in my lifetime with the exception of possibly Magic. And hell, if Magic says he's the greatest, then that settles my debate for me.
Very well put. If Magic admits MJ was better, he ought to know! The last 1-man team (as you put it) to win the title: If there is such a thing, I submit the 1994 Rockets, led by Dream.
I realize no one wins by themselves. But Pippen is continually delegated to "supporting cast" status, which I strongly disagree with. Duncan having a washed-up Robinson, Hakeem having a washed-up Drexler, Russell having all the guys he had around him... those were situations where a single star was winning with a good/great supporting cast, in my mind. To me, Duncan "led San Antonio to the title," Dream won his titles, Russell won his titles. Sure it was a team effort, but it was one guy who was clearly most responsible for winning it. But when LA won their titles a few years ago, how many people say "Shaq wins another one," or "Kobe does it again?" Maybe a few, but generally you say "Kobe AND Shaq win it again." Why? Because it belittles the contribution of the other if you only mention one of them. And this is EXACTLY what people constantly do with the Jordan/Pippen combo. They talk like Jordan was the only guy on the court for Chicago. Jordan played second fiddle to James Worthy in college, and he had a PARTNERSHIP with Pippen in the NBA. People will laugh at that, but I think they needed to see more Bulls games if they do. You don't need to drop 40 to be a superstar. Pippen was less visible, but he was a top-5 player in his own right; it belittles his contribution to talk only of Jordan when you talk of the Bulls' title run. Yes, other players had good supporting casts. But Hakeem in his title years never had anyone as irreplacable as Pippen, and neither did Duncan. Or Rick Barry. Or plenty of others.
Ali was a brash arrogant punk...what did he do to change the world? The only reason people even think nicely of him is that he got sick....never liked the guy, never will. I loved it when toothless Leon Spinks beat him......Leon was a pure underdog, and he wupped up on ole Ali...a great day in boxing. DD
