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Let's talk UBI

Discussion in 'BBS Hangout: Debate & Discussion' started by EddieWasSnubbed, Nov 11, 2020.

  1. biina

    biina Member

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    S. Korea High School Students debating UBI :)
     
  2. ryan_98

    ryan_98 Contributing Member
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    For those of you on the fence and wanting more information. Here's yet another example of how UBI is beneficial.

    excerpts below. more at the link
    https://apnews.com/article/stockton...philanthropy-1227f2ab4a1bb7677a01b887ba91554f
     
    txtony likes this.
  3. thegary

    thegary Contributing Member
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    UBI probably easier than trying to fix healthcare and the cost of higher education...
     
  4. Nolen

    Nolen Contributing Member

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    Tight US Labor Market Prompts More Wage Hikes At Big Companies

    https://www.ibtimes.com/tight-us-labor-market-prompts-more-wage-hikes-big-companies-3198292

    The fact that businesses have to pay higher wages to entice workers back to low-paying undesirable jobs lends evidence to the prediction that UBI would raise wages.

    When a population is desperate and has few or no options, it's easier for employers to pay them crap wages for hard work. When low income individuals receive 1200/month (a family household 2400/mo), that picture changes drastically.

    What would likely happen is many businesses that have insisted for a generation that it would be impossible to pay a decent wage and stay in business would suddenly discover the necessary funds.
     
    No Worries likes this.
  5. Nolen

    Nolen Contributing Member

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    Tell me more - I'm reading up on blockchain and DC (late to the game, I know.)

    Would it be impossible because BTC will always have a finite supply?
     
  6. dachuda86

    dachuda86 Member

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    UBI is impossible without MASSIVE inflation and we are seeing the results of government money spending/printing play out right now. The only way to accomplish the end result of UBI, which is income for the masses, is to EMPLOY THEM PRODUCTIVELY. We are seeing the results of bad policy .... decades of it. We have been screwing our people over since Nixon "opened" China which only benefited China by giving them jobs, money, and the ability to rival us on the world stage with the power to control literally every product in the global supply chain. Add massive government spending, money printing, costly wars to benefit stakeholders in the defense/oil sector, and unmitigated immigration to swell the availability of labor; thus depressing the cost of labor/freezing wage increases.

    This is all bad policy put in place to enrich older generations; younger ones be damned.
     
  7. DonnyMost

    DonnyMost clean your room bucko
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    as long as you're not printing money to make it happen, this is of absolutely zero concern, and the evidence of printing money for a UBI program causing this is rather sparse if not unconvincing.
     
    #127 DonnyMost, May 14, 2021
    Last edited: May 14, 2021
    Ziggy likes this.
  8. rocketsjudoka

    rocketsjudoka Contributing Member

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    You don't need to print more money just to lead to inflation particularly with so much money already out there.

    I don't see how it can be argued that wages rising to make work more attractive than just taking money from government benefits isn't inflation. Those higher wages are going to have to be paid for somehow and given that many businesses operate on tight margins those costs will be passed onto consumers.
     
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  9. dachuda86

    dachuda86 Member

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    No one is arguing there aren't benefits. But the cost is hyperinflation when enacted at large. Small studies done on small sample sizes are worthless in the face of economic reality.
     
  10. dachuda86

    dachuda86 Member

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    Where is the money going to come from? Who is going to pay for it? Who decides what a fair amount it? Why should people get money for existing?

    Let's be real... our govt prints money (via the Fed) or takes out debt. Only a portion of our activities are paid for by taxes and we can't afford our current rate of spending. UBI is not the solution when there are obvious sound policy solutions.
     
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  11. ryan_98

    ryan_98 Contributing Member
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    Your concern is valid if dollars were added to the money supply; however, this is not the case. New money isn't being created here.

    Will prices on goods increase in real dollars? Yes, to some degree, for 2 reasons.
    1. Prices on some items will go up due to the VAT.
    2. Some sellers will raise prices since they know people have more money to spend.
    Neither of those are technical inflation. Prices would need a continued upward climb and there isn't any evidence that would happen. There hasn't been any real sustained inflation from the multiple stimulus checks and those actually increased the money supply.

    So, what is the negative impact from these higher priced goods on low income people? The answer: Negligible. The VAT assessed goods (boats, airplanes, luxury cars, 2nd houses, jewelry) aren't bought by people without the means to afford them. And competition exists for a reason. The retailers that do raise prices to make a few extra dollars off the new UBI money will likely see fewer customers as buyers choose cheaper seller.
     
  12. Ziggy

    Ziggy 99ers STAND BY
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    FranchiseBlade likes this.
  13. DonnyMost

    DonnyMost clean your room bucko
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    ****in' anywhere. Doesn't matter.

    ****in' anyone. Doesn't matter.

    Breaking this down to first principles, it's because I value human life.

    When you climb up the hierarchy, you get into loftier ideas like the fact we're running headlong into a buzzsaw of human misery wherein people's work ethic and talent will have little to no bearing on their fate in life. We're already in a world where human productivity is becoming obsolete and decoupled from our daily existence. It's best we prepare for that inevitability. If we get the project off the ground "too early", what is the downside? A few otherwise productive people decide to sit on their asses and play Xbox all day? Even if that were the case (which. it. isn't.), it's a small price to pay.

    A better question to ask is why shouldn't they?

    The government being hopelessly drunk on throwing money into the military firepit is a completely different topic apart from UBI's worthiness as an idea.
     
  14. dmoneybangbang

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    True. It is shuffling things around.... low wage earners were being supplemented by government benefits. The service industry really does require ultra cheap labor with no benefits.

    I think small businesses will get hurt the most without getting tossed a life raft. Small businesses rely on low pay and very little benefits in the service industry, but then Chipotle can come along and offer increased pay and benefits to tens of thousands of employees.
     
  15. dmoneybangbang

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    How is the current system more efficient or any less costly?
     
  16. adoo

    adoo Member

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    from multiple revenue sources, including but not limited to:

    • higher tax rates on those who had benefitted immensely from Trump's ill-conceived tax cut, the top 1%
    • thanks to lower COVID cases, re-opening (schools, restaurants, concerts, sporting event, Vegas) means lots of jobs) means more traveling domestically
    • increase payroll tax revenue attributable
      • re-opening and new jobs created by the new infrastructure bill
     

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