1. Welcome! Please take a few seconds to create your free account to post threads, make some friends, remove a few ads while surfing and much more. ClutchFans has been bringing fans together to talk Houston Sports since 1996. Join us!

Let's Talk About James Harden, Clutchfans

Discussion in 'Houston Rockets: Game Action & Roster Moves' started by Mathloom, Jul 1, 2022.

  1. Milos

    Milos Member

    Joined:
    May 31, 2001
    Messages:
    1,237
    Likes Received:
    1,138
    Didn't all those Nets conditions already exist when Harden handpicked them for his next destination and forced the trade?

    Kyrie's always been a selfish nutjob
    Durant's birthday hasn't changed
    Nash was already well into his coaching stint

    Harden put himself in that situation by choice, then bailed a year later ... that was his poor decision


    Didn't he chose both BKN & PHI specifically to no longer carry the load solo so he could win a ring with more help?

    The playoff flameouts go all the way back 10 years when he ghosted OKC in the Finals off the bench, so that's nothing new


    Totally agree about him being a rock for 95% of his Rockets career

    I'll always defend him for being tough as hell, never missing games and playing thru all kinds of pain that we'll probably never fully understand


    On the B-list:
    Durant
    Russ
    Dwight
    CP3
    Kyrie
    Embiid

    That's 7 HoFamers he played with at or near their peaks
    Can't begin to comprehend how that classifies as B-list


    Yes, he's no Hakeem
    Dream won with Otis as his best teammate
    Then he got Clyde and Barkley well into their 30s, and another ring
    That's it for HoF help


    He's also no Moses Malone, back-to-back MVP and led us to a Finals without a single teammate of the caliber from that list of 7 above

    Seems like 7 HoF teammates should add up to more than 1 Finals loss as a bench player for a player as amazingly talented as Harden

    Something else is missing IN HIM that separates him from other guys who at least led a team to a Finals once

    Tmac was missing the same thing
     
  2. Mathloom

    Mathloom Contributing Member

    Joined:
    Oct 4, 2008
    Messages:
    18,246
    Likes Received:
    18,173
    We basically won’t reach any kind of consensus if your view is that Harden should have stayed after realizing he made a mistake.

    Nothing missing in him except he can’t win without another mvp caliber player on the floor with him in the playoffs, like 99% of max players to ever have lived. We can dance around that, but a person is not missing something by not beating the odds.
     
    Rocket River likes this.
  3. BallSoHarden

    BallSoHarden Member

    Joined:
    Mar 26, 2015
    Messages:
    2,436
    Likes Received:
    3,013
    David West comes to mind. He decided to take a 90% pay cut and opted out of $12M+ to sign for $1M w the Spurs to win a ring, he did not win one with the Spurs, essentially threw away $11M, he then did the same thing again with the Warriors. Guess what, no one even remembers him being on those championship teams. Taking $10M annual cuts for a player like him just to sit on the end of a bench and collect a couple of rings as gifts is pretty moronic and not very smart. That is the best case scenario too. Any time these veterans at the end of their career take a cut, they arent really betting on themselves, they are betting on the organization they choose. There are a ton of things in the NBA that are not in the control of a player, so to take a 90% pay cut when only 1 team can win, its a huge gamble. You are essentially betting 90% of compensation that you can only make in a limited amount of your lifetime, guys like David West are not going to have hundreds of millions in endorsements by getting jewelry when they retire. You are betting on the team having the right coach, right GM and star players, and then corresponding luck in the playoffs. Face it, winning in the playoffs often involves the opponents losing star players at some point thats typically how it goes down. So guys throwing away once in a lifetime money when 1 of 30 teams wins is massive risk, you don't even get to choose any of the 30 teams, you are often limited in your choices. If you are David West in 2015 you probably had a couple of options for teams that wanted you in the first place, then you have to pick one where you think has the best players to help you win. Barkley was bitter for YEARS for taking a pay cut to play in Houston and get no rings. Even with all of the TV money and everything else, he was bitter, he was fortunate to make money after retiring, but most players do not get that opportunity.

    As an NBA player you have a limited number of years to make money, you pretty much retire in your late 30s and have to have enough money to sustain your lifestyle for another 50 years. If you take Harden for example, maybe it would make some sense if this was a small cut AND he had the opportunity to choose the perfect scenario. Hes not able to choose his coach, he can't fix Embiid when he breaks down, he cant be the one who ends up deciding the actual roster that is put around him, all hes doing is giving up money blindly on the hopes of every other variable coming in his favor. He doesn't even know who he is giving money up for. Dirk taking a massive pay cut just for the Mavs to end up paying a bum like Parsons is another example, what a useless reason to take a cut. There are endless examples of guys giving up guaranteed money thinking they will get to a contender and then just getting hurt and blowing millions. Oladipo gave up $113M guaranteed thinking he could go somewhere and win, then he had a second opportunity to secure at least somewhat of a bag in Houston and still declined and asked to be sent to Miami. What has that gotten him? A minimum contract and zero rings. That is a significant lifestyle change for him and his family for the rest of his life. PJ Tucker has essentially been getting paid the same amount of money going from $8M to $10M is not really a huge jump , it definitely has nothing to do with him winning a ring. Being a 37 year old role player with a ring or without a ring does not add value.
     
    Rocket River likes this.
  4. Milos

    Milos Member

    Joined:
    May 31, 2001
    Messages:
    1,237
    Likes Received:
    1,138
    Or with any of the 7 he's already been on the floor with in the playoffs
    Maybe lucky #8 will do the trick if Embiid doesn't work out either
     
  5. jayfree

    jayfree Member

    Joined:
    Jul 3, 2015
    Messages:
    7,399
    Likes Received:
    10,171
    Sorry, I don't understand those who can't hear Jimmy ;)
     

Share This Page

  • About ClutchFans

    Since 1996, ClutchFans has been loud and proud covering the Houston Rockets, helping set an industry standard for team fan sites. The forums have been a home for Houston sports fans as well as basketball fanatics around the globe.

  • Support ClutchFans!

    If you find that ClutchFans is a valuable resource for you, please consider becoming a Supporting Member. Supporting Members can upload photos and attachments directly to their posts, customize their user title and more. Gold Supporters see zero ads!


    Upgrade Now