I've already rolled over from all the Cuttino bashing. It seems like there are only a small group of us on the board who still are down for Cuttino. I know I'm one of Cuttino's last men standing. Cod
Cat should be coming off the bench, like he used too. It works great, getting 25 to 30 min on the floor. That's fine with me!!
Hmmm, that should like a good comparison: Christie and Hawkins. They do play a similar game. Both of the are: Big guard (6'6" +), all-around player, with a defensive edge!
I agree totally. As things stand, he doesn't complement our new one-two punch. And given his style of play historically, there's a good chance he can't/won't change that style to accomodate an offense dominated by Yao/Francis -- even after a full season. So this is another compelling reason to trade him -- the risk factor in waiting. Yes he's talented, great scorer, etc. -- but that's what gives us leverage, and the chance to get value in return. I never really thought we should get rid of Cat before -- in spite of his often bone-headed play. But this is a great opportunity to tweak our talent mix and get us to the next level. Of course, this is easy for me to say because I have no emotional attachment to the guy -- unlike a lot of others here.
Exactly. Thats the crux of this whole debate that Cuttino supporters are missing. Cuttino just is not nearly as effective a player if he is taking only 8-10 shots per game. He is not a good enough passer, defender, etc to make him a worthwhile player when he takes so few shots. Mobley's greatest asset is that of a scorer, and the Rockets just dont need that right now. Sometimes you have to move talent like Mobley's in order to get a more cohesive, better functioning unit. Yao and Steve are showing they are capable of combining for 40 shots a game. Those two are far and away the best offensive options on this ballclub and need to be complemented with the right pieces. I went through a potential shot distribution in another thread, and there just arent enough shots for Mobley to take 15 plus. He would have to cap it at the 8-10 range at most. That ofcourse will majorly diminish his effectiveness.
Well, the bad news is, Clutch's trade idea will never occur. However... Rudy and staff must realize that our huge downfalls are that we don't play as a team, and we must do more things away from the ball (and Rudy probably does realize this). We have a LOT of talent and some great depth, but until we work as a team, we'll struggle. In all honesty, I think Rudy is a really great coach.... but I don't think that he's currently good enough to take us to a championship. Too many times have I said to myself, "why, oh, why is Rudy doing this?!?!". -- droxford
i think the problem in the dallas game was spacing and ming camping on the block... i noticed several times..ming sliding across the lane as mobley/francis would attempt a drive...which caused them back the ball out...francis seem to force the issue more..where as mobley settled for jumpers... both francis and mobley are use to cato standing way out of the lane staying out of their way, and then diving in as they drive.. ming is also probably use to gettng the ball when he is "feeling it"...thus was camping looking for the ball but francis/mobley,i felt, were trying to "take over" the game...causing probelms..this combined with poor overall spacing and dallas' improved defense was enough... they should have been just giving it to yao everytime down the court..considering he was shooting 80% from the field... mobley has played with post players before...let us not forget he played with both hakeem and chuck clogging up on the lane...cat is as good a spot up three point shooter as there is...he's hurt and had an off night...
I think it's brilliant. But I also think it would take something extra special for Indiana to make this trade. By some coincidence, I caught an old interview of Isaiah Thomas talking about one of his favourite players, one of his former players. That player is available at this moment, luckily. Here's my half-ass, no salary matching trade proposal: Houston trades KT Mobley Moochie Norris Indiana trades Tinsley Croshere Artest PORTLAND trades Damon Stoudamire Why would this one work? Because anyone who knows Thomas knows that he absolutely loves Damon Stoudamire. Definitely one of his favourites, and it's no secret that, while he's impresses with Tinsley's potential, he's not impresses with his production. With Damon Stoudamire running the PG spot free of Portland, him, Reggie, Bander/harrington, O'Neal, and Miller are locks for top spot in the East. Also, a team like Portland would take Croshere's mammoth contract off their hands, and would actually make use of him. With Pippen p=laying more point (Damon's departure), and their only other big F's being Randolph and Wallace, Croshere can play good minutes off the bench for them. They can use alittle more punch at F. Obviously, Houston's going to have to give up more. Probably a #1 pick to Indiana, and will have to pick up a contract somewhere. But this is basically what the teams would look like: Ming/Cato MoT/Griff Rice/T-Mo/Boki Artest/Francis Francis/Tinsley Unfortunate situation: Mobley is Francis' bud, and is coming off a good season. Unfortunately, with the team's new make-up, Shandon Anderson and James Posey are better fits. Hawkins will ride the pine, because he is a poor man's Artest, and we'er not poor anymore. Brad Miller/Jeff Foster O'Neal/KT/Bender Harrington/Bender/Mercer Miller/Mobley/Mercer Damon Stoudamire/Mobley/Moochie Dale Davis/Sabonis Wallace/Randolph/Croshere Wells/Croshere/Pippen Anderson/Patterson Pippen/Daniels/Mcinnis I can honestly say that all teams look better (cohesively) after that trade. Indiana also get a pick, while Portland gets rid of out-of-favour Stoudamire and get a valuable F. Houston lets Tinsley come off the bench, and give us the ability to go small, go very big, go normal, go fast, go halfcourt. Tinsley would abuse backup PG's, and Francis would abuse backup SG's. Artest would do a SUPERB job of keeping the Kobe's of the world in check. What to expect? Boki to start showing flashes, and T-Mo to be an excellent energy guy, and the starter when Rice is gone. Artest can feed ming in the post, as can MoT, and Tinsley is excellent at it too. Thoughts?
Are you positiviely sure about that? I'm not. We rank 19th in scoring. Getting rid of any scorer on our team without an equal replacement is going to hurt. Unless our defense is THAT good, I'm not sure if being 19th in scoring will hold up the entire season.
gee, lets start a rumor because Clutch says so, then go over to the Pacers BBS and troll away. theyt caught on quickly enough. pacerfan4life and pacerfan2k2 you really had all of the Indy fans going, they thought Cat and KT were on the plane to Indianapolis a big fat
DC, The problem with that logic is that Yao is just now starting to develop into what we all hoped for and will continue to see a greater offensive role as time goes on. Yao and Francis will need a lot of shots, touches, etc. Thats what being superstars is all about; the whole show will run through them. When you have two players that can be that dominant one day, there just is no place for a third player to take 18 shots a game esp considering the many options on this team. Plus, you cant tell me that even with last yr's average of 44% from the field that Cuttino should be taking this many shots when better options in Yao and Francis exist. Francis has been very efficient this season despite having to worry about PG duties and probably would be even better scoring wise if he didnt have to as much. Thats where I get the conclusion that Mobley will have to limit himself to 10 maybe 12 at the most shots. Can Mobes be effective enough in a role for this team with that few shot opportunities?
MManal, After reading your post, a thought popped up in my head. I think that Francis would become a much better scorer/overall player if Cuttino weren't on the team. He would've have to worry about accomodating his buddy, and can finally consider everyone else equal and trust ALL his teammates. I don't know what it is really. I just envision teh Rockets without Cuttino, and see Francis playing better overall. Thoughts anyone? P.S. I love Cat. I really do. I think he's a magnificent scorer, but he's just not for us. He would be a great backup G on our team though. But you have to give up quality to get quality.
we should trade Kenny T or Moochie for that boy WANG ZHUZHZU and then pik up the 3rd chinese guy. then we will be fillin up the arena
Sane, Ya I agree. What I am going to try to do over the next 2 weeks is monitor how the offense runs with Mobley out. Against the Wizards, the ball movement, flow, etc seemed a whole lot better with a player like Hawkins at 2 guard that did the little things ie (rebound, pass, hustle plays etc). He only took open shots that came to him via ball rotation and wasnt forcing anything. Mobley needs shots and scoring opportunities to be successful imo. I want to see how this plays out with Cuttino out of the lineup and then compare it to how things look when Cuttino returns in 2 weeks.
I was thinking the same thing, MManal. It'll be an interesting experiment. Can Hawkins keep up that level of play at the 2? If he does, we may have a new 6th man on our hands. Mobes was damn good in that role, as we all remember. Sane, if that were to work out (Hawkins as the 2), what do you think of having Cat as our instant offense off the bench? Wonder if he would accept that. He's always been a team player, doing what was asked of him, imo. His play doesn't always look like it , but that's another story.
Here's my view. I don't think the pacers would trade Tinsley, but a Mobley for Artest sounds pretty good. What we have here is to trade scoring for defense. Isiah is probably licking his chops at a Mobley, Tinsley backcourt. While the Rockets are looking to impove defensively, as they already have enough scoring.
Finally got through reading this whole thread, and I'm pretty surprised. 1. Jamaal Tinsley is not that good. I would not want him as my starting PG. I witnessed him get schooled by Fredie Williams when Iowa State visited the Erwin Center. Tinsley fouled out that game, with like 9pts. Tinsley led the entire NBA in turnovers. While he may be a solid player, he is not someone you want running your team. 2. Ron Artest? This is the same Artest that tried applying for a job Circuit City while playing for the Bulls. He's a head case, plain and simple. We're talking about a guy who's averaged 12.5 pts, 4.4 rebs, and 2.8 assists for his career. The only stat that really stands out is the 2.01 steals per game. 3. Cuttino Mobley is under contract for like 3 or 4 more years. This is Yao's first year, and only within the last week has he started coming into his own. Right now it appears as if this team is playoff bound. We might just need Cuttino's toughness come playoff time. This team needs a chance to play together for at least one year. 4. Coaching. Rudy T is at fault for not utilizing his weapons if this team can't win. If he can't get Mobley to play within himself, then he's also part of the problem. If Cat continues to be a black hole, then maybe he needs to be benched. It's up to Rudy to determine how involved Cuttino is on the offense. 5. Kenny Thomas is a poor fit. I see nothing wrong with dealing KT, given our PF situation. He must be dealt before the trade deadline, or else we lose him for nothing. I see him probably going to an Eastern Conference team. He could do wonders for a team like Philadelphia or Orlando.
