On the subject, it will be up to Cat as to whether he can adjust to being a role player and not a star. Because that is where it is heading. DaDakota
I agree DaDa and Cat is actually taking less shots, as shown in last nights game, the Cleveland game, and 9 shots in the Suns game. His assist are also going up to 4 assist per game the last few games. It's going to take time, tearing apart the backcourt IS NOT the answer.
The perfect trade for us would be Cato for Mike Miller (add in fillers from both sides). Miller is a 6-8 small forward that would be perfect for us. His three point shot has not come around this season, but its still early. I believe Orlando would do it as their three best players (McGrady, Hill, Miller) are all small forwards. A lineup of Cato Kemp Hill TMac Armstrong would kick ass in the East.
Artest would be a dream fit here but Indiana has to be in love with this guy right now. It appears that Cat is making an effort to try an fit into the offense. He is taking less shots and dishing the ball more. We should at least give it to the end of the year to make a judgement on whether or not he can fit in with this team which obviously is going to be a team based around Ming and Francis. If by the end of the year it still appears that Mobley doesn't fit then explore trades. It's obvious that Kenny Thomas will likely not have a future on this team. Good player but a player who has to create his own shot. Rice and Boki would be perfect to make teams pay for double teaming Ming and Francis. If the Rockets still think that Boki is the future it's time to start working him in.
Originally posted by aires : Trade Moochie Norris, Kenny Thomas, Jason Collier for Stromile Swift, Shane Battier We'll need a backup pt... but I haven't thought about it any further. This trade works out I like this, but I'd like to tinker a bit. Battier is the central player. Memphis needs a C and a PG, and a SG to replace Battier. Dickerson is always hurt and in the doghouse. I think Battier would require Mobley, but maybe we can package Mooch, KT and Collier for Lorenzen Wright and Stro Swift. Or maybe we get Dickerson. Memphis gets Gasol / Collier Gooden KT Mobely Williams / Mooch We get Yao / Cato / Wright Griffin /Taylor / Swift Nachbar / Rice / Tmo Battier / Hawkins Francis / Tito Or something. The throw ins don't really matter. The point is moving away from need the ball players to pass the ball players who can support our real future stars - Yao, Griffin and Francis. Bye bye, Cat, KT, Mooch. Not enough basketballs for you. Any combination that yields Battier + backup strength ok with me.
I heard Jason Richardson is real upset with his coach right now. Maybe we can work a trade for him. He's listed as a G-F and would be a nice add if we get rid of KT and/or Mooch.
Yeah, and if Jason Richardson were available, I'm sure we'd be the ONLY team that would be interested...you're right they couldn't get much more than KT and a contract (CATO or MOOCH) for him.
I agree with the criticisms of Mobley -- I make them myself -- but I disagree with trading him at this point, here is why. 1) Cuttino has appeared to be a really good Rocket for a long time -- work ethic, flexibility (point guard, shooting guard) camaraderie, energy and so forth. Not to mention signing with Houston instead of the Toronto Old Hakeems. Forget the court performance for one second -- argue that a different day -- but dude is not lazy, egotistical, a meglomanaic, soft or stupid. He seems like a good team guy. I could be wrong, but it seems like that to me. 2) It is hard to transition from primary scoring threat to support player in ten games. He has to acquire new professional bearings very quickly -- Clutch is right, he will have adjust the most -- but we're not winning any championships this winter, so let's give him time. It is early early early in the Yao Ming era, and I think he deserves more time to adjust -- he has adjusted in the past, and I think he can now. Will he? Not sure. But the time is now, no doubt. Still, the thing that bugs me about Mobley -- that Vernon Maxwellesque mistrust I have when he has the ball -- has paid dividends for Rockets as recently as last season. If he's dysfunctional, then we enabled it for a long time. Yes, his offense has chafed people (myself included) for a while, but we had nothing else to throw at other teams. Not like Walt Williams was a reliable centerpiece, right? It's like, the Rockets developed an offense which lived and died on Mobley's "creativity" (euphemisim alert) for a long time. To trade him for it the millisecond we have a better option seems a little rash. Not just because of loyalty, but practically speaking, he knows the offense and defense and hallways and lockers and so forth -- he's already a Rocket, something which holds currency when evaluating someone for the Rockets. I think passing and defense can develop, and it might be easier to work with a well-liked, loyal, competitive second-round-hungry guy than shipping in someone else. The transition has risks, and I don't know if they outweigh the risks of giving Cat a season to get acclimated. AND, there will be games when someone is playing Yao Ming and giving him fits, a night where Stevie Francis can't hit, and a couple of Mobley ISOs will be an essential change-up. Like, "jesus, nothing is working...what should we do...hell, let's run a dozen plays for Cuttino." He can do it. Not for a season, but in spurts, he can, we just need to figure out when those will be. So does he. I'd cite Vernon's 96-point outing in the second half of Game 3 vs. Phoenix in 1994 -- everyone else was emotionally spent, and his "creativity" (delusional confidence) pulled us out. That third-option would be a tremendous luxury, because when Cat gets going, he can do that game-changing thing Vernon used to do every so often. Yes, he needs to become a better passer and a witchy defender. I am not positive he can do it, but at this point, he has no choice (unless Yao's last games are a fluke, which they're not...). Give him the season to figure it out. Moochie on the other hand... CBFC
Brent Barry would be an awesome, awesome contributor. In Seattle, he handles PG-duties when Payton is off the floor (and sometimes even when Payton is on). He's a very capable passer and distributor. The fact that he's a knock-dead outside shooter makes him an even more compelling choice. He's also a good, solid, hard-working defender. Most importantly, he's a damn smart player. He shoots when he knows he should, and he rams the ball in for a stylish dunk when he knows he can. I'd say get rid of a lot of the fluff hanging around the Rockets for Barry. With the Sonics looking at the loss of Payton next season, a youth movement really might be compelling to them.
clutch, I couldn't agree with you more. While watching last nights game it was obvious what the future of the rockets will look like. This team has many pieces, but when Yao starts getting his 15-20 shots a game Mobley is going to lose out. I really believe that the reason we didn't win last nights game is because the whole team sensed the change and got scared. Glen Rice's eyes lit up because he knows he will have more looks now. Cat pissed his pants because he realized he won't be around for long unless he completely changes his game. note to cat: don't change your game, if it doesn't work here you can be a star somewhere else i.e. RIP Hamilton So when Yao went out of the game the Rockets did there best to have one last hurrah as the team built before the dynasty. Guess what, it looked the same as it did before on arest and tinsley though; my god clutch, who wouldn't want these players. Isiah wanted a defensive team and went out and built it. There is no way he would entertain losing his defensive stopper for Mobley. But keep coming with the ideas cause I shudder to think of what a playmaker like tinsley could do for us and with the dfense of Artest and Hawkins we could lock down the world. I will state this one more time for the record though. Yao is going to start getting doubled and this will cut his points back to something more realistic for a rookie year. Don't jump off the wagon, he is just learning the ropes. He will be the most dominant player in the nba. screw shaq
Why not just move Mobley to 6th man and start Hawkins at the 2? Cuttino could get his fill of shots with Cato and Norris on the floor... I think that would give this team a nice balance
Okay I think I was too quick to say okay on this trade and on my second thought here is what I came up with... Yes Yao is the real deal nothing new there... But his emergence is creating a bit of a problem for Rudy what to do with his new motion offense because Yao is such a high percentage shooter you almost want him to touch the ball everytime down... It worked with the Dream and while Yao is no dream (yet) he could turn into something just as special in his own way.... So if thats the case maybe we need to go back to the inside out game some and if we do that then that changes the roles we need players at certain positions to take... Let me start off with the 4 spot I believe Eddie and MoT have that locked down... I think MoT and Eddie both compliment Yao's game very well and that makes KT the odd man out.... I mean the few extra minutes leftover because of foul trouble will not be enough to suffice KT, Plus TMo and collier can handle those if Kt wasn't here, we are only talking about a couple of minutes here and there... So that means in my book Kenny would have to get his significant minutes at the three.... but is he what we want out of the three? I don't think so. With his best part of the game ISOing down low he just clogs up space for Ming to operate and his best offensive skills are one on one type play.... Yes he plays solid D but on offense he is someone who wants the ball and there is not enough ball for him plus the offense seems to go stagnant when he goes into his attempted backing up. He is not the answer... what we need is a Rice type player in his prime (I am hoping that the TMo Boki combination can give us something close to that) ... So that means KT would mostly ride the pine and in his contract year I think he would be a disgruntled Rocket... So unless he can make significant changes in his game then I don't see how we can keep him... I would give him a few more looks before I put him on the bench but it already seems like Rudy is leaning towards Rice He already started Rice in the second half of last nights game... As for Cat well I think it's not as clear... Yes he had a bad game and he does seem to want to take the game on his own at times and does make ill advised shots but he does have an outside shot as good as most 2's and if he can adjust to that role then I think he has a place on this team... You have to remember Cat and Francis had to carry this team last year and as a goto guy it is sometimes hard to adjust to a lessor role as a scorer but I think he can... he is a team player and a genuinely good guy and as the Rockets define Mings role more I think Cat will also define his role... So I am not just ready to trade him and I just think we need a little patience... As for Moochie who wasn't one of players in the deal I would include him in any trade... I like the guy but he just isn't playing very smart lately and I don't know if he is going to change that pattern... but if he doesn't come around soon then I think it's time to cut our losses and bring back brown... or anyone who can come in and relieve Francis and not make to many mistakes... Also as a side not I like the way Rice is slowly getting his stroke back but I don't think he is the answer at the three and I hope they manage to work in TMo and Boki more and give them a chance... I think we have to concentrate on Yao & Francis as our main offensive weapons and maybe a little MoT especially when their are mismatches... I like Rice and Eddie's ability to spot up for the three and am hoping that Cat can do that as well... So you see I am not so sure we need to include Cat in any trade talks... Not yet and I am not sure Artest would give us what we want at that spot anyway... Okay he is solid defender and he can run the break... maybe he would be an improvement but I just don't want to jump the gun here and miess with the team chemistry too much... However I don't see much future for KT on this team and Moochie needs to improve quickly if he wants to find a place somewhere's beside the pine... okay that's it for now...
I don't think you can double Ming. I'm serious. He's going to pick other teams apart by passing over the top. And he can still shoot over the double team. The Zone is going to be the only answer to Ming. Teams will have to pack the lane. And they will. Cuttino will be one of the better options when this comes to pass. His quickness will become an asset. By the way. Ming ran the floor last night. Wow. Reminds me of dream when he was a kid.
I was surprised! I thought when he starts getting winded he'd do the Sabonas painful hoble down the floor. But the man kept up! He even came in in time for some fast break miscue putbacks. Very impressive!
A repost from a perhaps ill advised thread. ****** "Rockets' fans: time to be ecstatic and patient." It is a time to be ecstatic. It is apparent that there is an excellent chance that Yao will be everything that we hoped for. He has a good chance of becoming , after Shaq, the next great center. No other short term Rocket concern or worry amounts to a hill of beans compared to that. Championship or at least Western Conference contenders to Shaq and Kobe in a year or two is realistic. Be ecstatic. To compound the joy, Eddie is showing that he also is getting better and will be esentially all that we hoped for. Steve is the real deal as an all star and budding superstar. Now for the minor concerns and patience. Is KT or Mobley the ideal fit for the big three of Steve, Ming and Eddie? Are Mo Taylor, Boki or T Mo a better fit? Maybe, maybe not. Should we trade some of them for Artest, Tinsley a point guard or a defensive specialist? A minor detail to be determined later. Be patient. By my book, Mo T, KT, Mobley and Cato perhaps are all worthy role players on a possible championship team. If not, no big deal. The Rick Foxes, the Horry's, the Christies, Bobby Jacksons and other recent prominent role players are always drawn like a magnet to the Shaq's, the Kobe, the Francis's and Ming's of the NBA. When you combine that with Mr. Player's coach, Rudy, the details will sort themselves out in time for the deep playoff runs. Be patient, but don't forget to be ecstatic.
It would be nice for the trade to happen, maybe. But why would the Pacers do it??? KT would fit in where?? They are set in the frontcourt. Mobley?? They have enough two guards for 2 teams. They have Reggie (when he gets healthy) Mercer, Jones is a 2, Strickland, and even Brewer can play the 2. It pains me greatly to say this due to my extreme dislike of Artest, but he is playing excellent basketball and Indiana would be insane to give him up for KT and Cat. Still, lets not give up on these two 10 games into the season. We are Rocket fans, no?? Let's instead support the players that we have until they are no longer Rockets instead of looking for ways to get rid of them.
Pip, I know that I'm on point when you agree. Everybody bragged that this was Rudy's deepest team ever. Now he's more confused than ever. He has more choices to win. Rhester pointed out what should Les do with Rudy. No playoffs, No job! Rudy is in the top 5 in NBA pay at $4M/yr. Everyone can agree that we haven't received top 5 coaching in the last 3 years. Coaches control PT, if his directions aren't followed, you sit until you learn. If Rudy is lost, he can't lead players in the right direction. The Rox will continue to chase their tail as far as players are concerned. Rudy had 3 Top 50 players twice and didn't win a ring! He's the only constant! Players come and go.
INdiana is winning and has a good starting record. I don't think there is any intrest to break up the team. Artest is having a stellar year. You don't trade a player on the rise liek that.
I posted in antoher thread. What about KT and Collier for Mike Miller? It works under the cap and both teams would at elast think about it.
My hat's off, CBFC. Can't agree with you more. Can't write it better. BTW, it takes years of us (male) to get used to the supporting roles to our wives. The bottomline is Cat deserves at least one season. Or in another angle, loyalty is a critical component of chemistry in team sports.
