That was his originaly offer, but to make the deal more even, he decides to throw in McDyess. ------------------ Never Underestimate the Heart of a Champion
personally, i find these deals really bad for us. anyone surprised how come for raef we only get miller and some bad picks, but you guys get artest, fizer and raef for SA, cato, thomas, and the 22nd pick?!? explain. ------------------ the nuggets suck...i know, i know!
Because we thought of the deal first. Hey, if the owner can screw the Nugget's fans by keeping Issel, why can't the Rockets screw them also? Actually, my thinking was to get the Nuggets two picks in the top 29 of a deep draft & a center (that Rudy has wanted in the past) to plug the middle for you. Miller's not a superstar, but he's an adequate center. With a front line of Willis/Miller/Mcdyess, you would have a pretty big front line. What do you, personally, think would be a fair price for LaFrentz? Also, what do you think Issel would consider to be a fair price? ------------------
* Dream to Miami for Brian Grant * Rockets do a sign n' trade by sending Shandon Anderson to Atlanta(his hometown) for Toni K. * Rockets trade their 3 draft picks, or draft picks + a signed Maurice T. for Theo Ratliff. Steve Francis Cuttino Mobley Theo Ratliff Toni K. B. Grant ------------------
For kicks, I'll make my spinoff of toddie's trade, to see if it : To Houston: Fizer Lafrentz To Chicago: Cato Posey Walt Williams Freed from obligation to Houston Detroit Pick To Denver: Miller Kenny Thomas Ron Artest #13 pick Chicago's deal Brad Miller, Marcus Fizer, and Ron Artest for Kelvin Cato, James Posey, Walt Williams, plus 2 picks. Chicago unclogs their power forward slot, while picking up Kelvin Cato, a player who Floyd has dealt with before, and will be valuable with the zone. James Posey needed out of Denver (remember the whole alleged "strike" incident), and is probably an upgrade over Artest, who was disgruntled himself. The Bulls weren't positive they wanted Miller anyway, and Walt Williams will provide the 3 point threat, and veteran quality they lacked, as well as the fact that he's only got 1 year left. They clear their obligation to Houston, which had been a thorn in their side by locking up any 1st round movement, as well as picking up a future 1st rounder. Denver's deal Raef Lafrentz and James Posey for Brad Miller, Ron Artest, Kenny Thomas and the #13 pick Raef Lafrentz will be gone, since Issel remains in charge. The Nuggets showed a great deal of interest in Brad Miller during his free agency, but were unable to sign him because they lacked the cap space. James Posey has somewhat dissapointed, and isn't in a favorable view in Issel's eyes anyway, stemming from the "strike" incident. Miller isn't overpriced, and has the size to be a Western center, at 7'0'' 260. He'd make an adequate starter or backup, and would be a legit center in the case of Kevin Willis, opting out and leaving. Kenny Thomas will make an excellent 3rd big man, or trade bait. The lottery pick is also a big plus factor for them. Which would allow them to shore up any area they pleased. The Rockets' Deal Kelvin Cato, Walt Williams, Kenny Thomas, and 3 picks for Raef Lafrentz and Marcus Fizer What's not to like? The Rockets clear up several roster slots, as well as about 6 mill in cap room, not counting the pick. With the money saved, and a couple of good big men, the Rockets could pursue the JYD, Jerome Williams to backup Fizer, and resign Hakeem, or sign Davis, Jackson or Mohammed to split time at center, as well as using cap leverage to trade for a stud 3, they also keep #18 and 22. I worked with several variations, some include Artest going to Houston and #22 and/or something else going to Denver, or various other pick combinations. Salary wise, Denver is about 300K short, meaning they'd have to throw in a starch player to make it work (Ryan Bowen would work, and whoever he goes to could waive him to let him go back to Denver). Another option would be also working out a Shandon for Tariq S/T on the side, but Shandon would have to ok it. ------------------ "That's been a lifelong dream of mine." -Vince Carter, after laying it in on a breakaway, much to the Vancouver crowd's displeasure.
What makes you think Cato has potential? Because he's tall and can jump? He can't shoot, can't play defense, and has no nose for the ball. The only things I see that you're going on are his physical attributes. Is Cato the only player in the NBA who's tall and can jump? ------------------ "I fell off the toilet!" ---Estelle Costanza "I'll be gettin real drunk and making fun of everybody"
Is there a point to all this? Nugzfan, head back to your Rivals.com Site. ------------------ Never Underestimate the Heart of a Champion
Actually, it's my Rivals.com site, and that thing's down. For good. God I hate Issel. ------------------ Nuggets4 Today the Nuggets announced that Dan Issel would be back as head coach next season. In related news, the NBA announced that the Nuggets have been mathematically eliminated from the 2002 NBA playoffs already.
I like your version & it's a little more fair to Denver. However, I was reluctant to include Posey, because he's been playing better & more consistently of late. What if Shandon won't go for the sign & trade to Denver? Do we resign him or wish him well? Nugzfan, What do you feel LaFrentz would be worth in a trade? ------------------
i like quality over quantity, meaning id rather have one solid center in raef than 3 ok or worse centers in miller and those two rookies. besides, those picks are really bad, and rookies are just not as good as they used to be. i like this a little better. even though we lose posey at least get some good players like artest plus a better pick. from the rockets or in general? you gotta admit with the new rules raefs value just increased. ------------------ the nuggets suck...i know, i know!
Both. Yes, I think his value has gone up, but I also think that the increase might be offset by Issel being kept around, because of the personal feelings involved. If you were Issel, would you take Nike's variation of the original proposal if Cheaney were substituted for Posey? ------------------ [This message has been edited by Hottoddie (edited May 01, 2001).] [This message has been edited by Hottoddie (edited May 01, 2001).] [This message has been edited by Hottoddie (edited May 01, 2001).]
toddie-I don't think CHI. would go for Fizer, Miller, Artest for Cato, picks, Walt, Cheaney. Maybe if you give them another pick, or send KT to the Bulls, and send Artest to Houston? Or throw Artest and Posey out of the deal completely. ------------------ "That's been a lifelong dream of mine." -Vince Carter, after laying it in on a breakaway, much to the Vancouver crowd's displeasure.
NUGZFAN - your opinion please. Kelvin Cato + Houstons' #13 pick + cap filler for Raef La Frentz? ------------------ GATER
i would pass on that. you guys have made me question cato alot (barely seen him play too ), im not high on the 13th pick although it has some worth and cap filler is just that... ------------------ the nuggets suck...i know, i know!
Hey Nike, How about this trade, if Denver were to balk at the first idea. Houston sends Cato/Shandon(S&T)/Drew obligation to Chicago. Houston sends KT/#18 pick to Minnesota. Chicago sends Artest/Miller/future #1 pick to Minnesota. Chicago sends Fizer/second round pick(#29) to Houston(as a condition of releasing them from the Drew trade). Minnesota sends Ellis/Garrett(we'll release him to resign with Minnesota) to Houston. Minnesota sends Szczerbiak to Chicago. Chicago's been trying to get Szczerbiak for Fizer/Artest & Minnesota needs draft picks & a center. Houston reduces salary by another $2.5 mill & dumps Cato. Using the assumptions from the original post: Chicago gets an athletic center(when & if he gets motivated, see assumption #6 from original post), Shandon(whom they've expressed an interest in), Szczerbiak, & are released from the restriction on their #1 picks in the future. Minnesota gets KT/Artest/Miller/#18 pick this year & a future #1 pick from Chicago. Houston gets Fizer(insurance, in case we don't land Webber)/Ellis(whom, Rudy used to be really high on)/the #29 pick(non guaranteed)/we free up another $2.5 mill in salary to go after Webber. Ellis doesn't have to be the player involved, it just worked with his salary. We could also throw in the Detroit pick, but I would be reluctant to throw in anymore picks from this year, because we'll need to package them in order to move up in the draft. What do you think of this idea & how can it be improved? ------------------
Chicago being under the cap could give Shandon what he wants immediately, so a sign and trade doesn't make too much sense. Minn. won't be trading Wally, unless it's for a star/superstar, a real impact player. I'm assuming LaPhonso Ellis because I don't think Minn has any other. He's a top candidate for 6th man, and they really like him. I'm fairly sure he's a free agent, too. ------------------ "That's been a lifelong dream of mine." -Vince Carter, after laying it in on a breakaway, much to the Vancouver crowd's displeasure.
Hottoddie - You must like Fizer ALOT!!! If I read you correctly it's basically Cato, KT, Shandon, #18 & relief to Chicago for Fizer, Ellis (6'8", 31 yo, 9-6 reg season) & the 1st pick in the 2nd round. Man, that's pretty steep. IMHO, the Rockets could get a proven veteran for that price. ------------------ GATER [This message has been edited by GATER (edited May 02, 2001).]
Nike, You're right about Ellis being a FA. My thought on these trades is to take advantage of the other teams needs & trying to exploit that to our benefit somehow. While Chicago could sign Shandon outright, we still hold them hostage with their #1 picks for the next 2-3 years. As far as Minnesota, if they hold out for another star to replace Szczerbiak, then imho, they'll continue to be eliminated in the first round for the next few years. At least this deal wasn't totally in our favor. Gator, Not really. The only player that we'd be giving up would be KT(assuming that Shandon opts out) & the #18 pick(which Rudy & CD are concerned about having anyway). By getting the #29 pick, it'll be like having a late non-guaranteed #1 pick, that we could package with the #13 & #22 picks to move up in the draft. Fizer got better as the season wore on & would fill in for the loss of KT & we'd free up some more cap space to go after Webber. I think we need some more rumors from those that are in the know. ------------------
