I'm starting to wonder just how much some of you guys watched the Rockets last year. Anyone who saw three, just THREE (in some cases, just ONE), games this season can see that Cuttino doesn't belong at the point. Not when he's so effective at the 2 (WAY more effective than he was at the pg spot last season). You can't just change the line because its a little "uncomfortable", or MIGHT have a little trouble defending one freakin' team (Which didn't happen last year). This lineup worked at the end of last year. It can work now. Shandon, Cuttino, and Steve all got 30+ minutes per game and Moochie played very well at the backup pg spot. Until I see that this lineup is no longer effective I think it should stay the way it is. ------------------ Ugh, Another Rockets off-season....I'm gonna need a keg of Pepto-Bismol.
You like Roderick Rhodes? Your the first Rockets fan I've heard say that! I personally think that Moochie is a great PG. I bet Toronto would had loved to start him there if they didn't sign Mark Jackson! Did you see that game he had against Dallas. He was tearing everyone apart! ------------------ Miggidy Markell says: 1. Eastcoast is da sh*t 2. Rockets rule 3. Hip/Hop is dope 4. Buy the new Ruff Ryders album! Miggidy Markell is watching Stay STRAPPED & WATCH ya back or be Assimilated.
I think the man's point is, let's put the best players on the court. Mobley is a better ball player than Moochie, and Anderson's minutes at small forward could get taken by Langhi. Instead of immediately saying that Cuttino can't play the point, we should be looking at a different brand of basketball that could utilize the talent we have better. Cat had an interesting point about the triangle offense. Jordan was no point guard, and always the first option, and often brought the ball upcourt. Walt, Shandon, Langhi, and Cat are all capable of bringing the ball upcourt against big guards and small forwards. The Rockets are a better team when Cuttino is on the floor, and Moochie and Drew are on the bench. They are a better outside shooting team, a better rebounding team, and a much better defensive team. The Rockets need to find a system to utilize the talents of their best players, not insist on a system that requires a lessor defensive player stay on the floor. I agree- get rid of these short defensive liabilities, Moochie and Bryce. Let's go with our best athletes, and find a defensive stopper at the 2 to come off the bench. ------------------ -The expert has spoken, so shut up and try to comprehend the truth.
RocketExpert: NO. Do you think it's coincidence that other teams with two good 2-guards still have back up points? Mobley would be a bad point guard.... no if's and's or but's. In fact, Norris is probably more valuable at the 1 than is Mobley. He's a better dribbler, and a better passer... which to me are the biggest prerequisites for the PG. As was stated earlier in this post... positions are not all the same. Francis is an excellent PG, but would be a horrible C. You people seem to think that because both positions are guard slots, that they're extremely similar. Not true. ------------------ The lottery sucks. Playoffs 2001.
I didn't feel like reading all of the posts, so sorry if this is a repeat. Mobley could play PG his rookie season because we had Pippen. He didn't really play like a point guard, although that was technically the position he was playing. I don't think it works with the current roster. If Mobley needs more minutes, I think I'd rather play Shandon a little more at SF. ------------------
Loose Moochie?! Did ya'll watch the games last year? He's great for us as a back up PG. We don't need he and drew, but Moochie isn't going anywhere. ------------------
Haven- NO. You completely missed my point. The triangle offense does not require a traditional point guard. I think it is always better to find an offense that puts the best players on the floor. Get out of your mental rut and visualize a different offensive set for your Rockets. ------------------ -The expert has spoken, so shut up and try to comprehend the truth.
We don't have an offense that would suit the triange. In fact, who leads the Rockets? Oh, yes, that's right, Steve Francis. A point guard. The point will be the most important position for this Houston team. Meant rut? Base the strategy on the players? I am. When Francis isn't in, we need the best possible back-up at the 1. That isn't Mobley, it's Norris. Thank you. ------------------ The lottery sucks. Playoffs 2001.
[/B][/QUOTE] One other point you forgot on Triangle Haven. The triangle needs big guards, well I wouldn't call Mobley or Francis a big guards. ------------------ Hack a Shaq you'll be winning Hack-him you'll be dreaming.
the triangle - which my team runs - is not predicated on having big guards. yes, it does help. but it isn't a prerequisite. the triangle offense is reliant upon three things: a. that your players are willing to shoot the open shot b. that your players are good passers and c. that your players (esp. your guards) are good decision makers if you ask me, the rockets have the personnel to run the triangle. in fact, it is probably the only offense in existence which affords for EVERY player to be in their NATURAL scoring position. it also is the only offense which, when run correctly, CANNOT BE STOPPED. i would LOVE to see the rockets run the triangle. but i don't know that it will ever happen with our current coaching staff. ------------------ miles ahead of the rest
Verse: why are you so enamored of the triangle? I mean, I'm just curious now. I honestly am not sure that it's any more effective than many other offenses. It seems to me that the teams that have won with it... well, they were the best teams anyway. It seems to me that there's more to be admired in Jerry Sloan's X's and O's... after all, the Jazz have won far more than their talent should allow them. If the triangle is really so dominating, why *don't* more teams use it? I seriously doubt that all coaches but one in the league are flaming idiots. I'm not an expert by any means, but it seems to me like that offense would *not* be conducive to Francis' style of play. Explanations would be appreciated . ------------------ The lottery sucks. Playoffs 2001.
i searched for some different triagle illustrations for you, haven. i found this one (which is the same set we use): http://www.bbhighway.com/Talk/Coaching_Box/Clinics/Triangle/triangle_intro.asp now, you'll notice that in that set, the 3, in our case shandon anderson is going to be the man bringing the ball up court. steve, the 1, is in the corner. and cuttino, the 2, is up top (on our team, i would have him shifted slightly to the weak side. maybe one or two steps over). what happens? our basic set has what would be shandon anderson bringing the ball upcourt and dishing to steve in the corner. as he dishes to steve, the 5 (cato), would step out and set an 18ft screen for shandon. shandon dives to the basket. you'd be shocked how many open baskets you get off of that basic give-and-go. after the dive, if he doesn't get the pass, he follows through to the other baseline. next, cato swings over and sets a screen for steve in the corner for what amounts to a pick and roll out of the corner. the defense has a choice to make: double steve and let cato go free to the basket, or follow cato and let steve blow by his man - having cato as a 10 foot outlet. notice where the 4 - let's say mo taylor - is on this set. if his man steps over to stop steve on the drive, he has an open 12 footer, or a dunk if he follows steve in. if cuttino's man falls into the paint to stop the dish to mo, taylor would shift out of the paint slightly and downwards to open the passing lane out to cuttino. should cuttino receive the pass, he's in the position to stroke the "j" or iso with an oncoming man - his two strongest suits. if he doesn't do one of these two options, guess what you have then???? a triangle in the opposite corner, for shandon's in the corner after his earlier dive, mo's in the post, mobley's on top corner, cato's weak side, and francis is top (shifted slightly to weak side 1-2 steps). here's the gr8 thing about that: it puts all of your players in the position they are most comfortable with. not only that, but it puts the onus on the guards to make the best decisions. we have 2 guards which CANNOT be stopped by one man. throw in the factor of a screen, or a onrushing, out-of-position defender, and you've got a halfcourt mini-fast break. the downfall? decision making and timing. but is that really a downfall? i think not. if your guards will shoot the open shot (which will be given to steve or shandon (or whoever's in that corner), and can drive/dish off of screens, it really is unstoppable. ------------------ miles ahead of the rest
man it must be hot out there. i thought i just saw u post that we should lose moochie. ahahahahahaha. crazy me huh? ------------------ Lookin at a 75 year old man in a thong: NASTY Lookin at Shaq hit free throws: "O SH**!"
take the lakers from last year. if they run a 1-4 offense, do they win? no. if they run any other offense do they win? probably not. see the year before for proof. why don't more coaches use it? IMO, it's beacause it is complex in nature. what i showed you above is but one set with at least - no kidding - 12 different options. that's just one set. there are many, many more. if you look around the basketball world, there are many coaches who do run the triangle offense - i believe (don't quote me) that either utah or princeton runs a variation of the triangle. for sure, utah runs the triangle defense. other factors as to why you don't see more nba coaches running it: personnel. it does require a competent backcourt who are legitimate threats to score, but can also dish with the best of them. they have to have patient players who dono't b!tch about not touching the ball up court every time. the entire key to that offense is: PATIENCE. it's required from the coaching staff & the players alike. once accomplished, it's deadly. in fact, i can probably think of a way to stop every, and i do mean every, offensive set in the nba. every one, that is, except for the triangle. why? because there is not a definitive 1st, 2nd, & 3rd option. it is based entirely upon what the defense does. if they give up the "j" you have to shoot it. with the team we have, i'd take that. it's basically pick your poison. i wish the rockets would do it. i really do. in fact, rudy, carrol, or whoever, if you're reading this, i hope you try it. or call me. i'd be more than willing to chip in my two cents worth for a small fee (just a few MM ) hope i answered your questions.
I wish Heypartner would come along . This debate came up last season, and he was pretty thorough, I thought, in discrediting it. Ah well... *shrug* ------------------ The lottery sucks. Playoffs 2001.
NO way we lose Moochie. And NO way the coaches are gonna lose Moochie. I dont even wanna talk about this too much cuz it's never gonna happen. We might lose Drew, but not Mooch... he played too good for us at the point last year. This thread SICKENS me! Frankly, I'm ashamed of being a member of this bbs due to threads like this. OH YEAH, and what happens if Cuttino gets injured? Or Francis? ------------------ president of the dan langhi fan club. [This message has been edited by alaskansnowman (edited August 18, 2000).]
right on snow ------------------ Lookin at a 75 year old man in a thong: NASTY Lookin at Shaq hit free throws: "O SH**!"
It's because Jackson is the super coach right? And the triangle is the ultimate offense right? And the Lakers team was EXACTLY the same last year right? Oh it wasn't? Oh and KOBE had another year under his belt? Oh, I see - that makes sense then.... sorry... had to quote you - Utah run pick'n'roll offense and so does Princeton - what the heck is triangle defense?? Matt Maloney and Ron Artest seem to fit that mould.... You're not talking any sense here - the triangle is all about everyone getting a touch every time up the floor - pass the ball around and then let someone jack up a shot sometime during the passing.... Yeah, patience from the fans.... Tell me did LA run the triangel exclusively or did they run a LOT of post ups for Shaq where he kicked it back out for the open shot/ hit the cutter - that's a similar offense to the one Houston used with Dream isn't it? I'm more confused than ever now!! ------------------ [This message has been edited by DrNuegebauer (edited August 18, 2000).]
belive it or not cat CAN play the point- but thats like rasheed wallace and KG playing SF. He can do it, but he's not comfortable doing it.He's one of those tweeners like allen iverson and eddie house who are the size of a PG, but play like a SG(Thats why he slipped to the 42nd pick in the draft). Anyways, i've grown to like moochie. AS for drew, he'll be gone before you can say the words "rashad Lewis" ------------------ "There are two rules for success... 1) Never tell everything you know."
"SuperCoach" huh? well, call it what you like. check his resume, first, though. he's far from perfect. but the offense isn't that far from perfect. and really, i do think that kobe having another year under his belt helps. however, if you give him, shaq, et al, that same year under their collective belts with the old offense they ran, do you really believe they would have won last year? try to give it some semblance of a rational thought...Doctor don't have all the time i did a few days ago, but, yes i did type - and mean - defense. it basically is running a triangle (3,4,& 5) setup in the lane, with 2 chasers. i'll have to get more into that one later. either that statement was a joke...or you are a joke. dude. please read both of my posts. it is far from that. in fact...as i stated above...many times the first cutter receives the pass. if what you were saying were true, why don't we all just run a damn three man weave??? not to mention, you contradict yourself here. first it's an offense where everyone gets to touch it and someone chucks it up. then it's an offense where they just dump it down to shaq and wait for him to shoot, or maybe pass out, ala houston of past. it can't be both. you're being, well...nevermind. wrong again, dr. the post for shaq IS a part of the triangle. it's called the quick post. you can do it for your guard or your post. if you notice though, when he posted, there was always either a strong side or a weak side triangle. this is a far cry from houston's 4-1 offense where 4 guys stood around the perimeter, or 3 guys around the perimeter and one 15 ft baseline. why is that not surprising. back off of the anesthetics, please. "Dr." LMAO! if you want to talk about it intelligently, please go ahead and reply. if not, i'll happily let this one die out.... ------------------ miles ahead of the rest [This message has been edited by verse (edited August 20, 2000).] [This message has been edited by verse (edited August 20, 2000).]
