I'd rank every GM in the league better than CD except for those in his peer group: Knicks, Clippers, Blazers, Hornets, Bulls, Wizards, Raptors, Hawks & 76ers.
Come on, you're really nitpicking here. I hear what you're saying. I bashed CD throughout the Rudy era just as hard as you are doing right now. But you can't judge a deal now by a past deal. We all agree that the Mo Taylor signing was an absolute embarassment. That's in the past. CD should now be commended for the fact that he's now gotten out from under it and has created a positive situation this summer with the expiring contracts. As far as Bobby Sura, you're really reaching here. Who cares that he's actually a 2 guard? He's thrived at the 1 and the team has thrived with him at the 1. Isn't that all that really matters? I'll be the last to defend Dawson. His track record during the Rudy years left alot to be desired. But since Gumby's hiring, he's made nothing but shrewd personnel decisions one must admit.
CD made good decisions in the RudyT years too! Let's not forget that every great plan starts with some basic assumptions as to building blocks. Fact was, that StevieF was a franchise player with real franchise value back then. And if you remember how CD filled out the team by getting Eddie Griffin, signing up Cato, and finding Mobley in the second round. It's easy to say in hindsight that all these were bum moves, but at the time, on paper at least, these were all very calculated and very well orchestrated transactions. It's unfortunate that there was a bit of a mismatch in the maturity level between SF, EG, and Co. with management but in the end, CD did the best with the cards that were dealt to him. If you really want to see a major GM screw up, you need only look to the NY Knicks and the mess they've been in for the past five years. Google Search: Scott Layden theSAGE
So you're saying that CD's decisions when he was the GM with Rudy "left a lot ot be desired" but as a GM with JVG he has been shrewd. I think that says more about the coaches at the time then it does about the GM. And perhaps you can also say that CD learned from past mistakes in terms of "over paying" via too many years. Luckily, we havent repeated the same mistakes that it seems MANY teams seem to do. They never learn from the past. And BTW, I do agree with you.
So am I! I've missed this site (damn university workload!). Been unable to get my Rox news Glad to be back.
This isn't about if CD is better or worse than any other GM. Maybe some others are happily saying that. But I think the important part of this *thread title* is that CD has made the bold moves. Namely, getting rid of one of the most overrated PGs in the NBA! Landing one of the most prolific scoring SGs in the league. Hiring a top no-nonsense x's and o's coach for our team. Allowing our star center to mature slowly, but surely. And surrounding our stars with quality, smart role players! So, for that, he gets a lot of props! Best GM, worst GM? Who cares? I don't think any GM could have made "good drafts" if you try to build a team around a clueless PG. The previous five years was a waste. It was dismantled, bit by bit, and shipped out of town! And good riddance! Watch the next 5 years if you don't believe me. P.S. And this team is not finished. Watch our FA pick-ups next year as well as our next draft! It's going to be amazing to YOU how *good/bad* draft picks become become *better* when you ALREADY have a SOLID FOUNDATION in place!
That's not what I was comparing. I was saying that rebuilding (what Rudy was trying to do w/Francis) was more difficult than what JVG was tasked to do. I think this is obvious to most everyone. The rest of your post isn't really relevant to anything I said, but I wanted to address this. I think this is ridiculous. Rudy would always have made any trade that would have been in the best interest of the franchise (to the extent he had control over trades). He traded Hakeem Olajuwon, for crying out loud. He traded Horry, Cassell, etc. It's not like coaches in the NBA evaluate talent that differently. Ask any coach in the league, and they'll all tell you McGrady is a better player than Francis. To suggest Rudy wouldn't make the same trade is ridiculous and there's nothing to support it at all. Nothing.
True... Rudy had fire years of hell. Ok, that's established...yes it was hard; trying to fit a square peg into round hole (Francis). Do you think that Rudy needed 3 or 4 more years with Francis? How about 6 more? The point is that no amount of time would have mattered whether it be Rudy or Jeff. Jeff was brought in to improve the discipline of the team and go in a different direction than it was going (same for five years). So, whether it was "more difficult" is besides the point. BOTH coaches' methods failed because of ONE common denominator: Francis. That's why he was traded. Does it really matter if Rudy went through 5 years of hell vs Jeff? Do think that Jeff should have gone through the same just to prove a point that it was the same or *more difficult" that Rudy went though? It was pointless. Hakeem was traded....after a 17 YEAR career. And he was 39 years old! Are trying to say that that's the *same* as trading your young star player at 22-24 years old, that was the supposed leader, and was supposedly only in need of more mentoring? Apples and oranges man. Next... Horry and Cassell were traded in 1996-97 for a guy named Barkley. At the time, it was more important to trade away the role players Robert and Sam for a HOFer than it would be if they had traded away their *best* player (HOFer: Hakeem). As far as Francis, he was our "best" at that time.... So, to trade him away would have very difficult for Rudy do -- different that the Hakeem situation. I will give you this.... Maybe it would have taken longer than 6 years for Rudy to trade SF. But it's clear that he wasn't traded soon enough to save his job or get Tmac. So, when you say, there's nothing so support my claim that he wouldn't have made the trade. His buddy-buddy relationship with Francis and his unwillingness to admit that Francis wasn't suited for a leadership role...well, these are reasons that he probably wouldn't have pushed for a trade but instead would've tried to make the Francis/Yao duo work. I say tried! Either way it wouldn't have worked. So, your Hakeem/Francis comparison does not apply. And your Cassel/Horry trade was a different situation. That being said, the Rockets would've had to shone *a lot* of interest outside of the team for the Orlando deal to be made. And if Rudy wasn't willing (for reasons I stated above), then there wouldn't have been reason for Orlando to even inquire about a possible trade with Houston in the first place. Mostly likely, another team would have snatched up Tmac and we'd still have Francis. Why? Because of Rudy's insistence that Franics needed more time -- as well as the other circumstantial reasons above. Yes, a lot what I say is speculation on my part. But I just wanted to make sure that you knew that it wasn't a case of "nothing to support it at all," like you suggested. There were reasons to believe that a trade wouldn't have been made last year. Maybe it would have happened in the future. But that would have been too late for a TMac acquisition. Also note that Francis was a special case. During the Rudy/Francis days, most fans/media wouldn't have believed that a PG could be so clumsy with the ball unless it was the coaches fault. Well, that wasn't completely true. We know that now...as seen in Orlando. Same ole....same ole...The Rockets organization just didn't belive it at the time. As as well a lot of fans.
Has any team made so many in-season deals that have worked? I don't mean one 'big' deal, but multiples. All 'small'. Synergistic changes. CD (and his people) has to be strongly considered for exec of the year. Will the make-over get completed next summer? One or two moves that work out this well and let's start talking June.
Yeah but we weren't stuck with those guys. We were picking them for NJ. Collins is okay, I guess. Had we kept all of our own picks, we could have had Jefferson and two of these four: Samuel Dalambert, Jamal Tinsley, Tony Parker, and Gil Arenas. I doubt that that infusion of rookies would have kept us out of the lottery, so we still get to keep Yao.... or would we have gone for Amare Stoudemire instead of Yao. We could have done the Clipper deal and gotten Odom plus still pick Amare. That would be a killer team: 1. Parker 2. McGrady 3. Jefferson 4. Odom 5. Stoudemire with Dalambert, Sura, Wesley, Barry, MJames and Juwan off the bench. (I think we could have still done all those deals). Ah, the luxury of 20-20 hindsight.
Interesting to see JVG's quote in the Chronicle that he told Les when they tried to get Mike James last summer, he JVG wasn't going to give up on getting him.... So how much of this is CD and how much is JVG? How much of the former regime was Rudy?
Just my opinion, but I believe JVG is picking his players and Rudy picked his players. Rudy and JVG each had their own system and style and wanted certain players to play in their systems. CD was the facilitator. He helped broker the deals. Or maybe CD comes to JVG with some player options and JVG lets him know his thoughts. I think CD is the right hand man to the coach.
I agree Deuce. CD has the contacts with the agents, other GM's d can work out the details with CBA and the cap. The coach is the one on the line-he is responsible to the owner-he gets to pick his players in a cooperative effort with the owner. as Jeff has explained very well- this is a joint effort by the coach, GM and Owner-with input from others. I agree with this. Many on this board have blamed Rudy for every draft and personell move blunders. they can give Van Gundy 100% credit for every successful deal.... I believe this is a committee effort..
The last two seasons moves have completely destroyed the theory of "you can't fire the team, so fire the coach". Almost 100% turnonver in personnel with no loss in performance. I wanted him gone, too. But he's delivered.
This is why I don't usually respond to your posts. This was a thread about personnel moves - someone brought up that Rudy T was responsible for some bad ones. I pointed out that it was much harder to make acquisitions for a rebuilding project than it was for a team with established stars - one coach had to rebuild, the other didn't. Then you come in with all this crap about Francis and asking whether or not JVG should have kept him for 5 more years - in other words, nothing you've posted is in any way relevant to anything I said.
Good Job Coach - Picked up an Average player at a position soley needed. Bad Job GM - Signed that player huge amount of money and years. ----- Bad Job Coach - Charlie Ward Bad Job GM - 3 year deal.
Yea, and we could have had MJ instead of Hakeem huh? We would/could/should have had what, like 15 championships by now? You nailed it right on the head: "20-20 hindsight"
Not to mention that the vision is not accurate. McGrady demanded a trade to play with Yao. Not Odom. Not Amare. Yao. So the lineup would've looked like this: 1. Parker 2. SF 3. Jefferson 4. Odom 5. Stoudamire Key Bench Players: Cato, Mobley (actually not sure who we needed to give up for the Odom for #1 pick trade, so maybe bench would've been different) Not a bad team, for sure. But it's debatable whether such a smallball lineup w/o Nash would still work in the West. Now let's see the Clipper team: 1. Jaric 2. Maggette 3. TMac 4. Wilcox 5. Yao Key Bench Players: Kayman, Brunson (?), ??? Not sure if TMac would've demanded a trade to the Clippers to play with Yao, and I'm going to assume that they lose Brand as part of the trade. Sub in Brand for TMac, and that's still a scary team. But then, they are the Clippers, so who knows? But Angelinos would've creamed themselves every time there's a Laker-Clipper matchup between Kobe + ??? and TMac + Yao.
