OH and btw you did specifically wrote that demanding a pay rise is insane. So what exactly are you doing trying to refute what you clearly posted?
totally irrelevant... If the nba was a free enterprise business where all commodities were readily available - then this argument would hold water - but it's not... If you let Howard go tomorrow and freed up the cap $, that doesn't mean you could then sign Demarcus Cousins and pocket the difference... It's the NBA... its become all about max contracts based on length of service...
When y'all talk about Harden's isos, are y'all suggesting that he's breaking from the established offensive game plan? if he's ignoring coaching, that's certainly a problem. I don't get the sense that he is.
Simply stating something is irrelevant doesn't make it so you have to make logical connections to prove it. Would you want Morey to pay Corey Brewer 30 million next year? No? Why? Because you can find his output at a much much cheaper price and he's on the decline, much like Dwight Howard. I don't know how you missed the relevance but let me attempt to break it down for you so you dont struggle to put two and two together. *DWIGHT HOWARD IS NOT WORTH BEING PAID THE 5TH MOST MONEY IN THE LEAGUE* (Not yelling but that needs to be emphasized) He also wants a pay raise when his talent is declining. As his pay rises his talent will decline. He is not comparable to Demarcus Cousins because Cousin's is actually an All-Star whose talent is on the rise and is much younger and would actually fit much better next to Harden yes Cousins still is being paid much less. Dwight's talent can be had at a much cheaper price so no you might not get Demarcus Cousin's but you can get production from two very talented players for the price of Dwight whose talent will only decline very fast because his play is based on athletic ability and he's often injured and on the wrong side of 30. If we were 7th in the league in defense and were higher on the standings I would say there is no way to replace that. However, there are 14 playoff teams with players playing center (Mostly pf's) who aren't known for their defense yet they are in the playoff picture and they are being paid much less than Dwight. At his age, with his experience, the fact that he wants a pay raise, is always injured, you would think he would be the leader of this team and be pressured to be so he's not, but Harden is expected to be. Harden who is an all star, Harden who is paid 6 million dollars less than Dwight and is almost never injured. Harden who has less experience and is much younger than Dwight somehow is the guy under the most scrutiny on Clutchfans and it makes no sense.
Here we go again. Comparing irrelevant things. Cousins is rookie extension. Howard isnt'. And guess what? Even if Howard gets the 4 year max of 30 per he won't be the highest paid but for one year. ROOKIES WILL BE PAID 25 PER. do you get it? Oladipo will cost more than James Harden. But sure let's just compare numbers and contracts from ages ago.
My point was max contracts totally warp the payrates based on tenure... As you stated you wouldnt pay Brewer 30M - actually, you COULDN'T pay him 30M - beyond his max based on tenure... just as james harden could get more on the open market, but when he signed his contract he signed for the max he could get paid based on tenure... Let me put it this way... I think Dwight is going to resign for around 20M a year in the offseason... if we opt not to re-sign him at 20M a year, WHO could you realistically get that would be a better allocation of this money? Whiteside? Even if you decide that Whiteside is a better option, he will prob get numerous suitoirs offering him that (or more - idk what his max is going to be...) - so just having the money to spend doesn't ensure you a player that you feel is worth the allocation... more often you end up with cap space and nobody worth that much money to sign... that's how Gordon Haywood ends up with 15M a year (pre cap bump)...
Why are you trying to make it seem like I'm just comparing Cousins and Howard.. the reason You have no keg to stand on so you have to change the argument. It's quite simple even when Cousins gets a pay raise he will still be in his prime. Again Howard is making more that almost everyone in the league save 4 people, not just Cousins my post was more than relevant.
You are offering Whiteside as if he is the only choice. More money means more flexibility. With the money and willingness to package it with other players like Brewer there is no telling what talent we could get in return. Considering that we are already losing paying 20 mil for a guy in decline makes no sense. If we were winning sure. Beyond that my point which is getting over looked is that everything points to Dwight being the leader including his pay. But he is not our leader and the focus is on Harden. Despite age, pay, superstar status. He is not an all star and he is not being held accountable Clutchfans for his play comparable to his experience and pay check. If you're gonna pay someone that much then he should have everything on his shoulders not Harden.
Ding ding ding! It's a problem either way by coaching right. Either he's breaking from the game plan and the coach can't handle him OR that it is the actual gameplan. Seeing that the Rockets have a very ISO heavy offense it seems it's part of the gameplan, if it weren't and he was constantly calling his own number I imagine not many in the lockerroom would like him.
You're right I don't have the quote but JB actually alluded to this. And I've said before it was Harden who asked for another ball handler not Mchale. Mchale only talked about Harden moving without the ball after Harden complained this offseason.
the one who has no keg (whatever that means) is you who compare apples with oranges. Rookie extensions with vet contracts. Howard you say makes more than 4 people..if he is paid 20 per (which he would be braindead to take) he will be paid in two years less than ROOKIES. Wake up and smell the roses. The cap rises, the slots are different. And comparing star rookie contracts which are the MOST VALUE with star vet contracts or even worse...role player vet contracts is asinine. Do you want such a good value star rookie contract, like Harden's or Cousins? Guess what? Draft him! (or do a miracle and once every decade trade for him). Because that's why they are RFA. The sooner you can get them is when they are 9 or 10 year vets, on the back end of their peak and ready to cash in big time. Oh and you will have to compete for them with the rest of the league ofc.
You still don't get it. Howard makes more than almost everyone in the league. You are paid based on what your value is seen to be. So even with all the factors you've stated he is still being paid higher than anyone else Howard is no longer worth 20 million dollars, I don't know how many ways I have to say that before you get it. The same output can be achieved with a much lower salary and several players can be had. We could get several players who are not one dimensional to put around Harden instead of Howard and a bunch of scrubs. But again my overall point is for the money he is still not even a leader. Why the hell is he getting paid that much money?
Yes HE IS. I don't know how to make it more explainable with simple words. The 20 in summer 2016 is not 20 that is in your mind years ago. The new 20 is the new 12. OK? Do you understand now? Everyone who is any good will get 20. Noah may get 16 who is with one foot on the grave, and Rhyno may get 25. 20 for dwight next year is a very lowball offer, MUCH bellow his market value and there is no way in hell he accepts it. He will lose like 30 million dollars. If you don't want to pay him, dont'. If you expect to get someone on the cheap to replace him...good luck. Oh btw Whiteside is going to get paid 23 per. And he is a nutjob.
Not to mention that what is sooooo conveniently left out of this convo is that Dwight comes with Bird Rights. Any FA you want to sign without Bird rigts, a) you will have to fight with every other team because literally 29 teams will have millions and millions of capspace and b) you will have to sign them with capspace so you can't sign first Durant in his max and then go over the cap.
I don't want to pay him he's not a leader, His defense has declined, he can't hit free throws. 20 million if that is what he is asking is less than I thought he was asking for, I thought he wanted 25 or more still who knows how quickly he will decline or that he will even play. BTW you brought up Whiteside. We don't necessarily need a traditional center.
He asks 30 (max) he asks 5 year too. Go to the other thead and see bimas post tp see the whole number. Morrey offered 20 per. Very lowball offer. You said he doesnt even deserve it which ....doesnt make sense. You deserve what ypu get in the market. Whiteside is a c alright. There will be many teams going after him. Next best choice for c is horford ,noah , hibbert and al jef. You miss on the first two (extremely likely) and you end up with hibbert. But sure save your capspace and lets see what happens.
Oh and is harden a leader? If we pay max only to leaders then lets pay jet and give haren the minimum.
I don't think you get what I'm saying. Either you trying not to get it or you just don't want too I don't know. Howard is declining and he asked for a pay raise, do you get it???? My overall point is Howard gets paid more than Harden and is not held to the same scrutiny as Harden is. It's as plain as day I feel like you are intentionally not getting it.
Howard is blasted left and right for..smiling and you make a comparison? Btw what exactly are you even debating here? That wage should be directly collerated with scrutiny OR that Howard doesn't deserve to get paid 20 million dollars? Because you seem you have been debating another thing and now turn it into scrutiny. Fact is Dwight WILL get much more than 20 million dollar per => he deserves it because it's his market value. The end. Now what scrutiny has to do with Dwight's market value, and the new cap contracts I have no idea. Perhaps your aim here wasn't to debate Dwight's next contract but to b!Tch about the forum's threads.
