Well, Major already has the better everything else -- yardage, per-game averages, TD/INT ratio, yds/completion, better yds/attempt, etc. QB rating is just one of many things. What more can I use if you ignore all the real-life results? What exactly are you arguing Simms is better based on? Game play. You know what yardage, per-game averages, yds/completion, etc. is based on? Offensive playcalling. Greg Davis went deep much much more with Major Applewhite than he does with Chris Simms. I've watched all the games, and when Davis gives Simms the freedom to make decisions, throw down the field, find the open man, etc., he is a brilliant QB. We did that with Ricky too. Applewhite performed both with the good running backs and without. We play even more of a ball control type offense now than we did with Ricky. Again, Major got more freedom to go deep even with Ricky, and that inflated his numbers. Do you watch those plays? There are receivers going deep/middle routes on almost every play. Simms is the one choosing the short routes. Yes I do, and it's fairly obvious to me that the main receivers on the plays most always go short. Much more so than they did with Major. There is always a guy that may go deep, but usually it's just to stretch the defense. Very rarely is he actually running a route and expecting the ball. Better TE, better O-Line, better WR's, better RB. Yet, we're averaging far less yardage than the last couple of years. Call better plays. Go down the field. Stop trying to establish the run and establish the pass. We did all three of those things much much better with Major as the quarterback. WTF? He threw one in the endzone. He threw one deep on the sideline. He threw another down the middle of the field. None of those came under pressure. One INT wasn't his fault -- I've never blamed him for that one. Besides that, this isn't a one-time thing. He's thrown more INT's than Major in far fewer career games. After the INT that was off the fumble, Simms had to essentially throw up a Hail Mary down the middle of the field and pray for a miracle. That would've never happened if not for Vasher's mistake. Also, Chris Simms has improved drastically since last year, so I don't see why career stats are applicable. You could see him pressing last year when both he and Major played, and he was afraid of being taken out. Why is it that you are willing to blame everyone from Vasher to the coaching staff to the running game for Simms' performance, but he never seems to be at fault? Because I watch all the games, and when Simms is given the freedom to make decisions and make plays, he is a brilliant quarterback, possibly the best in the country. It's not his fault our offense doesn't try for as many big plays and goes by this stupid ball control ****.
<B>There isn't a weakness in the offense. </B> We'll just have to disagree here. We scored 3 points against an Oklahoma team that gave up: 27 to North Carolina 37 to K-State 17 to Baylor Each of those teams, I believe, scored more than their scoring-average against the OU defense. We should have the best offense in the nation -- talent-wise -- and that should be able to score more than 3 points on ANY team's defense. Whether you want to blame Greg Davis or Simms or the running game or whatever, that's a different story. I do think the offense has improved by leaps & bounds the last two weeks, though, primarily because of this: <B>1) He tends to stare down recievers. </B> Simms is finally doing a better job in this area.
The biggest reason being Simms has never won a close game before, and I don't think he's ever been a good "under pressure" decision maker. When has Chris Simms had the chance to win a close game? He's only been in two, last year's Oregon game and this year's OU game. He played a great game against Oregon, and did plenty for us to win. You can't blame him for Roy and BJ dropping those passes in the end zone. And against OU, who knows what would've happened if not for Vasher fumbling that punt? Simms would've had the chance for a two minute drive with the game on the line... Vasher took it away.
<B>Call better plays. Go down the field. Stop trying to establish the run and establish the pass. We did all three of those things much much better with Major as the quarterback. </B> Have you considered that we did all those things because Major was BETTER at those things? In case you didn't notice, we went downfield 3 times in the OU game (before the Vasher hell) -- 2 were picked off because the QB threw them way short (the other got a pass interference penalty). If your QB doesn't throw downfield effectively, downfield plays don't get called. Besides that, there ARE downfield plays out there -- Simms has been choosing the short routes, though. This changed a bit last week and even more so this week, and the results have been dramatically better. I still have yet to hear even one argument based on performance of any sort that Simms is the better QB.
Shanna, I would assume that Oklahoma wasn't quite prepared to play at their peak against North Carolina and Baylor. For those games, almost all of their starters were out after the first half. And by the way, UNC scored I think 14 of their points off special teams. The Kansas St. game was a combination of two things probably-- looking ahead to the Texas game, and Kansas St. having an option QB. This type quarterback seems to give the OU defense more problems.
Have you considered that we did all those things because Major was BETTER at those things? You think Major throws a better deep ball than Chris Simms? What team have you been watching? If your QB doesn't throw downfield effectively, downfield plays don't get called. Besides that, there ARE downfield plays out there -- Simms has been choosing the short routes, though. This changed a bit last week and even more so this week, and the results have been dramatically better. Simms has thrown downfield exceptionally well when given the chance. Did you watch the A&M game last year? The Oregon game? The Oklahoma St. game this year? The UNC game? In case you didn't notice, we went downfield 3 times in the OU game (before the Vasher hell) -- 2 were picked off because the QB threw them way short (the other got a pass interference penalty). You're telling me you can fairly evaluate a quarterback based on three pass attempts? That's the problem right there... we should've been going deep many, many more times. I still have yet to hear even one argument based on performance of any sort that Simms is the better QB. Interesting, I've yet to hear one argument of that sort on Applewhite.
<B>When has Chris Simms had the chance to win a close game? He's only been in two, last year's Oregon game and this year's OU game. He played a great game against Oregon, and did plenty for us to win. You can't blame him for Roy and BJ dropping those passes in the end zone. </B> That's the thing -- I KNOW Major makes good decisions. Simms may or may not. So unless Simms is better in some other areas -- and he hasn't demonstrated that thus far -- I don't see why we would go with a QB who might be able to do what we know Major can do. The only "pressure" situations Simms has been in really have been individual plays, and he hasn't done all that great in those few situations. Granted, that isn't the same as a two-minute drive to win the game. Basically, it all boils down to the fact that with a good team -- and a great defense -- I want a smart QB over a strong one. It's the Josh Heupel / Oklahoma defense formula.
I would be ecstatic with a ten win season. We haven't had one of those in awhile. We've had plenty of 9 win seasons though.
<B>I would assume that Oklahoma wasn't quite prepared to play at their peak against North Carolina and Baylor. For those games, almost all of their starters were out after the first half. And by the way, UNC scored I think 14 of their points off special teams. The Kansas St. game was a combination of two things probably-- looking ahead to the Texas game, and Kansas St. having an option QB. This type quarterback seems to give the OU defense more problems.</B> Again, more excuses. Every time anything looks bad for Simms, you come up with a variety of excuses why. Why can't Simms justify anything based on <B>his own play</B> instead of excuses for other people? <B>You think Major throws a better deep ball than Chris Simms? What team have you been watching? </B> Simms can throw the deep ball just fine. Hitting the receivers and not getting picked off is an entirely different story. <B>Simms has thrown downfield exceptionally well when given the chance. Did you watch the A&M game last year? The Oregon game? The Oklahoma St. game this year? The UNC game? </B> OK, lets use your "excuse philosophy" you love so much. A&M: Their top 4 secondary players were out and injured. Oregon: You mean the 4 INTs? Okie State: He didn't throw the ball more than 10-15 yards on any of his passes except one or two. UNC: ??? Our offense was bad against UNC. 1 TD by Applewhite & company in garbage time. 1 TD by the special teams. 1TD by the defense. 1 TD on a Vasher punt to the 5 yard line. 1 safety. 29 of our 44 pts were not due to the offense. Defense won that game. <B>Simms had 165 yards on 37 passing attempts.</B> <B>You're telling me you can fairly evaluate a quarterback based on three pass attempts? </B> No, I'm telling you it's <I>part of a trend</I>. When that trend continues, you try to change play calling to avert that trend. The offense probably felt like it had to play mistake-free, and throwing down the field with Simms has not been a good formula for that in the past. As you noted, the Oregon game where we threw downfield a lot also resulted in 4 INTs. <B>Interesting, I've yet to hear one argument of that sort on Applewhite.</B> No, you've heard the arguments. You just choose to make excuses for everything good Applewhite did and everything bad Simms has ever done. Keep blaming the playcalling, the running game, Vasher, the defense, looking ahead and what-not. It's alot easier than justifying Simms based on his actual play.
I think some people here are forgeting Major's inability to throw the mid-range pass. That remains the sole reason I think Simms is Texas' best QB. Both can throw the deep ball, both can dink it accurately. But Simms can thread a 25 yard needle. Applewhite cannot. Applewhite, did, for a while, manage to churn out 300 hard passing games every week. That was very impressive. However, I think part of Applewhite's ability was in his ability to exploit inferior defenses. Simms is lest apt at this, but I think he'll fair better against the good defenses. Against OK, he actually fared fine in the 1st half. Yeah, he really looked bad in the 2nd half. But a lot of that was a function of having utterly no ground game and Davis' refusal to throw the quick slants that were available. His final two interceptions really were not his fault. But I can't help but remember how Major looked against Nebraska in the Big 12 Championship a couple of years ago. He looked lost. He couldn't do anything. He's now the slowest QB around, running a 40 in the mid 5's.
Simms can throw the deep ball just fine. Hitting the receivers and not getting picked off is an entirely different story. So, outside of the OU game where we played the best defense in the last decade, what deep balls has Simms had picked? A&M: Their top 4 secondary players were out and injured. Did they all become injured between the OU game and our game? There was just about a two week gap, and Chris Simms did a better job than Josh Heupel did. Oregon: You mean the 4 INTs? You mean when one or two of the INTs were on a hailmary and another went right through the hands of one of our receivers? UNC: ??? Our offense was bad against UNC. 1 TD by Applewhite & company in garbage time. 1 TD by the special teams. 1TD by the defense. 1 TD on a Vasher punt to the 5 yard line. 1 safety. 29 of our 44 pts were not due to the offense. Defense won that game. Simms had 165 yards on 37 passing attempts. Do you remember the drive before the half that game? 45 seconds, ball on our own 20? That was about the only time Simms was allowed to look down the field and make plays. He did. The offense probably felt like it had to play mistake-free, and throwing down the field with Simms has not been a good formula for that in the past. As you noted, the Oregon game where we threw downfield a lot also resulted in 4 INTs. 2 or 3 of those INTs were clearly not his fault. Keep blaming the playcalling, the running game, Vasher, the defense, looking ahead and what-not. It's alot easier than justifying Simms based on his actual play. And you can keep resorting to statistical evidence to prove your points. The game is played on the field, not on the stat sheet. The game is about making plays, doing well in the opportunities given, playing smart, etc. Simms has looked much better in every one of those areas than Major, and unfortunately I don't have a stat to back it up. I'm sure the Texas coaching staff doesn't either, but it's obvious who they think is the better QB, and they're probably more knowledgeable on this matter than either of us.
<B>The game is played on the field, not on the stat sheet.</B> Yes, it is. And on the field, Applewhite has played better than Simms. Applewhite has won some big games, Simms has not. On the field, Simms has thrown more INTs and fewer TD's than Applewhite. On the field, Applewhite is the only one of the two who has won a big game for UT. <B>Simms has looked much better in every one of those areas than Major, and unfortunately I don't have a stat to back it up. </B> That's because there aren't any, because Major has been the better QB on the field. He has looked better, he has played better, and he has the stats as well. <B>I'm sure the Texas coaching staff doesn't either, but it's obvious who they think is the better QB, and they're probably more knowledgeable on this matter than either of us.</B> Then why the hell are you questioning the playcalling? If they are obviously more knowledgeable about this than either of us, then why do you think we should be throwing the ball down the field more? I assume this means you think we should never question a coaching staff, correct?
Applewhite has won some big games, Simms has not. Applewhite has also had about five times more big games to play in. Can you honestly tell me that Simms has had enough games to determine whether or not he's a big game QB? Simms has had two, and did plenty to win one of them. The receivers let him down. If they had done that for Major, he would've lost that game too. On the field, Simms has thrown more INTs and fewer TD's than Applewhite. On the field, Applewhite has had better plays called every game. Then why the hell are you questioning the playcalling? If they are obviously more knowledgeable about this than either of us, then why do you think we should be throwing the ball down the field more? I assume this means you think we should never question a coaching staff, correct? Just because a staff misses some play calls in big games doesn't mean they can't determine who the better QB is out of two players they've seen for three years. He has looked better, he has played better, and he has the stats as well. He's looked worse, played worse, but had better playcalling to make him look good.
shanna: When it comes to arguing and discussing college football, there is no one that I respect more than you. As a matter of fact, I had a pretty good feeling that you weren't a girl, because I don't know any females who can talk about college football like that. With that being said, I think The Cat and others have a point: If the Horns' offensive play-calling is as conservative as you-all are talking about, how can Simms prove his worth when he's constantly throwing screen passes, dump offs into the flat, and handing the ball off? The same stuff went on in the Tennessean in Manning's senior season. Anytime the Vols lost, the paper would write how conservative the play-calling was. Granted, players have to make the plays for their team to win, but how can Simms make those plays if he only gets them 3 to 5 times a game?
Stats or game tape? Both are valuable. Duh . Stats indicate consistency, game tape the specific attributes and mechanics of players. I've heard that scouts use stats as a filter and then focus on a narrower field by reviewing game tape. Makes sense to me. In any event, I'm not sure that stats are particularly enlightening with respect to Simms and Applewhite. Last year, Texas used a completely different game plan with the two were on the field. And Simms didn't really play enough to set up a good sample size. The same thing is true this year, but in reverse. Applewhite just hasn't played enough to evaluate his performance vis a vis Simms. That's especially important, since Applewhite is almost snail-like following his 2nd injury. While scrambling was never a major part of his game, that sort of mobility problem is going to hamper any QB. As far as criticizing the coaching staff... I think you're far off-base there, cat. Coaches know more than most of us. But they're not omniscient. And their decisions aren't inviolably correct. The best example is, of course, Kevin Steele of Baylor's ingenious decision to go for 2 with a 1 point lead 2 years back with no time on the clock. Baylor lost that game. Other decisions have been obvious mistakes as well. Why wasn't Benson played over Victor Ike against OK? You really think Ike was a better choice? Why was the run abandoned entirely in the 2nd half, despite averaging 3.1 ypc in hte 1st half. Texas was only down by 4. They didn't have to go into "catch-up" mode. With BC, a couple of years ago, we were leading Miami 28-0 in the late 3rd quarter. We should have gone for their throats, but instead starting the "run it up the middle" mercy tactic. We lost in the greatest collapse in school history. Coaches make mistake. Fans have every right to 2nd guess. In the case of Simms vs Applewhite, Brown has more to consider than just the merits themselves of each QB. He also has to realize that elite high school QB's aren't going to want to join a program in which they don't have a good chance of starting. Furthermore, the threat of Simms' transfering was always present, and there was little doubt that Simms would eventually surpass Applewhite. Brown might have decided it was better to sacrifice a little on the field now in order to keep Simms in the fold.
For the life of me, I can't see how any UT fan would actually prefer Simms to Applewhite unless they were a) related to Chris Simms, or b) related to Mack Brown. To me, this is exactly like comparing Steve Young to Joe Montana...it's so similar it's scary. Simms is the athlete, like Young. But Applewhite has the balls and the brains to actually win big games. That's all that matters! You can talk all day about how Simms can throw better 25-yd passes than Applewhite. Who cares! What the hell does that matter? Quarterback is played between the ears. I find myself just sitting here laughing at all the excuses being made for Simms. I haven't talked to anyone in real life who thinks UT would've lost to OU with Applewhite playing QB. All this blaming of the coaching staff...the Offensive Coordinator is obviously going to give more freedom (if it's even about that) to the guy he has more confidence in! It looks to me like Greg Davis is showing us who he believes in more! Why do you think the Titans don't turn Steve McNair loose? They're afraid of what he might do if that happens! They're scared.....they simply don't have the confidence in their QB to turn him loose. If it really is the coaches who are handcuffing Simms, it's because they don't think he can handle the pressures of being QB, so they're playing it safe. The bottom line -- Simms is playing because he is a Mack Brown recruit. Mack Brown is playing politics. But Greg Davis, the guy who's actually doing his job, obviously knows who the better QB is. It's plain as day. Wake up! You can still be a UT fan and want Applewhite to be in there! It's what's best for the team!
Bottom line. Simms is the better QB. He wins games. Colorado was a big game. A&M was a big game. The only stat that matters is winning percentage. UT wins 80% (a guess) of the games he starts. Has Opie won a big game sans Ricky?
1999 OU 1999 Nebraska You guys can't convince me Simms is a better college QB than Applewhite and I'm not gonna convince you that Applewhite is better than Simms. Major is the greatest QB ever at the University of Texas holding over 40 records. Call it a draw. It's Mack's decision. He starts Simms. Simms gets booed at DKR TMS and hears chants of "Major!" almost every home game. Fine with me.
I didn't want to make this into a Chris vs. Major issue. We have two of the best QB's in the country who have handled this situation very well. Should Simms have been redshirted in 1999? Yes. I don't remember when Dunn left, but we should have found another QB to back up Major. Worst case we would have to pull the shirt off Simms in an emergency. Should we have a 2 QB system? No. The 2 QB system sucked last year. We should play one QB the whole game unless that QB is unable to have any success (OU 2001). Should Simms have been named starter this season? No. He has not done anything to deserve the starting job on the field. Is the best QB on the bench? IMO, Yes. Has Simms played well this season? Yes, and he should not be benched. That defeats the purpose. I felt that Major should have played in the OU game but I don't think he would have made a difference. Our playcalling and execution stunk. Did Mack handle this situation well? No. IMO, he did not give Major a chance to compete for the starting job this season. Politics played a huge part in Simms starting. Who is going to bench a 5 star QB? Does it upset you when people say "Major had Ricky"? Yes it does. Major would have put up these numbers without Ricky. In fact, the majority of the records were broken without Ricky in 1999. What do we do now? Simms is the starter unless he proves otherwise. The offense has improved since OU. The defense is badass. We keep working to win out. Yesterday vs. CU was a big win vs. a top 25 opponent. A BCS bowl bid is very much a reality.
<B>If the Horns' offensive play-calling is as conservative as you-all are talking about, how can Simms prove his worth when he's constantly throwing screen passes, dump offs into the flat, and handing the ball off? </B> Manny, if this were the case, I'd agree with you. I don't believe the coaching staff does call different plays for Applewhite and Simms. In my opinion, they run under the same system, but Simms is the one choosing the short passes and quick completions. Applewhite could read defenses better, and thus could figure out what receivers would be open in the middle-to-deep range and throw there. Simms can't read defenses as well, and thus can only resort to watching the field to find open receivers. One thing you'll notice is that Simms never throws to a guy "in motion" because of this. His receivers will be stopped then they catch the ball more often than not -- if they are moving sideways at all, he almost always throws the ball behind the receiver. One big reason Applewhite's yards-per-pass numbers are better is that he could throw the 5 yd or 15 yd pass, but lead the receiver so that he's running full speed and will get more yards. Simms doesn't see receivers as well, so he ends up passing to 2-yd "safe" pass to the nearest receiver who's always going to be open. In the last 2 games, he's improved in terms of looking for receivers down the field, and that's led to more deep completions. I don't think the playcalling is substantially different at all -- receivers have been open on deep & middle routes all season long. That said, I think Smokey summed up my feelings about the situation better than I have thus far.
