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Let the Drone Wars Begin

Discussion in 'BBS Hangout: Debate & Discussion' started by Mathloom, Jul 3, 2012.

  1. Bandwagoner

    Bandwagoner Contributing Member

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    This drone offers them no strategical advantage in action against Israel.

    Why do they need a drone to use on Iranians? If they want to see what is in someones yard they can fly a plane or helicopter or just go there and search it.

    I can assume their leaders and 100% pure evil and it not change the usefulness of a drone to them. If you are worried about arms proliferation, them pursuing in copying this drone is the best news ever. It will keep them from building things that can kill people. It will advance their optics and material science knowledge along the way.


    I'm not sure if you are highly misinformed or borderline delusional. What are you not understanding?
     
  2. Mathloom

    Mathloom Shameless Optimist
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    All bark.

    You're a real drama queen though, I'll give you that.
     
  3. Bandwagoner

    Bandwagoner Contributing Member

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    I am genuinely not understanding your concern for Israel, Iranians and how this drone represents arms proliferation. If you can explain that, I will explain why you are mistaken or misinformed. Seriously.
     
  4. Mathloom

    Mathloom Shameless Optimist
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    I'm not mistaken or misinformed.

    You made an arbitrary observation (no idea based on what) that Iran would not be able to build drones except maybe in the distant future. I was hoping that you had some expert knowledge, but it's now looking like it's just your best guess. If the assumption is based on the ability of Iranian scientists to exceed your expectations, I'll take my own knowledge of the subject over yours, thank you very much.

    You also said that done technology being a danger to Iranian citizens is "misguided and factually asinine." I posted an article for you which shows that domestic drones is a real issue in the US already, and which Iranians can be exposed to in the future if the drones become a reality.

    Anyways, thanks for the discussion. Keep the explanation, it's right at home in your head.
     
  5. Bandwagoner

    Bandwagoner Contributing Member

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    OK so I think I understand your confusion. So facts you can check:

    The type of drone in Iran is unarmed. it is for recon.

    Drones are currently better than manned planes in two ways; in hostile airspace less risk of lives lost and cheaper than helicopters for domestic law enforcement. They are inferior in every other way.

    Using the above information I believe you don't know or misunderstood, lets go through your scenarios.

    Dangerous to Iranians: A tool that is less useful than a helicopter for spying is not dangerous to them. Even more so when you consider their limited freedoms against search and seizures.

    Dangerous to Israel: The cost to benefit ratio of flying a drone over Israel makes it insane. Unless they really want to piss Israel off while gaining no useful information whatsoever, they won't do it.

    Arms proliferation: The drone is armed. It is a small plane that can evade RADAR and take pictures. Seems silly to call it arms proliferation.


    I disagreed with them being able to copy it and even if you don't believe that, it makes no difference to the above facts. Walk me through your logic, it seems there is none so prove me wrong or tell me what you were thinking.
     
  6. Bandwagoner

    Bandwagoner Contributing Member

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    Another thing, you might not be familar with USA TV but we have huge powerful cameras on helicopters all the time for traffic, fires, car chases, everything.

    Law enforcement wants drones to ease the cost (helicopters are the best solution but expensive) not have some super weapon. FOX loves to blow it up though to scare the tinfoil hat crowd.
     
  7. Mathloom

    Mathloom Shameless Optimist
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    All we need to focus on is that drones are better than unmanned planes in probably two ways. Who cares if they acquire the ability to use drones on their people in more than 5 years, right? By then everyone else will have better drones, and that's what's important.

    You're right, I'm probably overreacting.

    Yes we are all aware that these are different drones.

    I understand your opinion, but I'm not willing to bank on the fact that the Iranian leadership will act rationally or will not be able to copy what you call mediocre drone technology. Oddly, you usually agree that the Iranian leadership are irrational, but in this case you seem quite willing to believe that they are morons who can't figure out a way to develop the technology but will definitely be rational with it. Reminds of the excuses Egyptian leadership would come up with when buying technology/weapons that they would later use on their own people.

    I also think that if the US uses 30,000 drones to monitor its own people, Iran will want to emulate that and the technology would aid them in doing that. The difference being that Americans don't have as big a problem with their government, as Iranians do with theirs. You may not have a problem with this breach of privacy, but that's a choice for individuals to make, and it's certainly not acceptable to a huge number of people. Their leaders are executing people for drinking a Cosmo, in my eyes armed or unarmed drones will generally yield horriffic results for Iranians.

    There is a very different risk in giving weapons to a domestically hostile government whose external enemies are out of the reach of its military. Frankly, there is nothing more delusional than thinking neither Iran or its allies will be able to use this vehicle to fast track their progress towards more sophisticated weaponized drones.
     
  8. Mathloom

    Mathloom Shameless Optimist
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    oh believe me, I am unfortunately very familiar with the prevalence and uses of surveillance cameras. hint: http://suite101.com/article/dubai-security-cameras-everywhere-a252288

    Having cameras for traffic, fires, car chases, etc is different than cameras with no immediate purpose.

    I think you are right that FOX exaggerates, but it still raises a concern. It is extremely common for the inventor of a technology to undersell the potential problems, there are plenty of examples please ask if interested as I have researched many examples of this especially wrt military-funded tech.
     
  9. AroundTheWorld

    AroundTheWorld Insufferable 98er
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    Should we be worried?
     
  10. Bandwagoner

    Bandwagoner Contributing Member

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    Those two ways help Iran in zero ways. If they need to spy on people they can just wiretap them, or take them to prison. The contexts are not the same. It doesn't benefit Iran at all beyond propaganda.



    Me saying that they cannot replicate 5 decades of RADAR testing, polymer science, material science, avionics, and optics in 10% of the time with .001% of the research funding and personnel isn't calling them moronic. It's stating the facts. They don't build planes, RADAR, or anything remotely like what they would be trying (irrationally) to replicate.

    With that level of control, they don't need to spend billions on developing expensive drones that cost more than a truck to drive 10 guys to the dissidents house.


    And then have these drones totally crushed by their own 4th generation fighters in war games? Your arguments of drones being terrorizing machines are delusional. They would never dedicate research to an inferior fighting machine. If they do, thats good.
     

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