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Let freedom ring.

Discussion in 'BBS Hangout: Debate & Discussion' started by Northside Storm, Jan 27, 2011.

  1. ChrisBosh

    ChrisBosh Member

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    Just wondering what he would have to do to prove that he deserves the benefit of the doubt? Turn full white? Make his middle name disappear? .... Have a foreign policy that would make Dick Cheney & Bush proud? Oh wait they do approve of his neocon foreign policies as it mirrors what they were all about.
     
  2. A_3PO

    A_3PO Member

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    How about the benefit of you shutting up until you actually know something? I realize that's a radical change for armchair knee-jerks like yourself but anything is possible. "Wait and see" on facts becomes second nature once you try it a few times.

    Go ahead and take that first baby step.
     
  3. thadeus

    thadeus Member

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    Grizzled just made you his b****.
     
  4. Grizzled

    Grizzled Member

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    They’ll blame Obama either way, as usual. It doesn’t matter how this turns out. Basso and XXX just hate America, period, and they want a very different outcome in this situation than the rest of us do.

    I’m beginning to think that the anti-Mubarak sentiment is so strong that he may have to go, but the problem then becomes who replaces him. There seems to be a large leaderless groundswell against Mubarak, but it doesn’t seem to know what it’s for. If Mubarak goes … what then?
     
  5. bigtexxx

    bigtexxx Member

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    "wait and see"? sounds like an excuse for not getting results
     
  6. bigtexxx

    bigtexxx Member

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    actually when he had to resort to insults, he completely lost credibility
     
  7. Major

    Major Member

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    Good article from Foreign Policy on Obama's response and it's underlying goal, addressing people who think Obama should have just seized the moment to support the protests:

    http://lynch.foreignpolicy.com/posts/2011/01/29/obamas_handling_egypt_pretty_well

    It's long, but here's a key piece:

    It's crucial to understand that the United States is not the key driver of the Egyptian protest movement. They do not need or want American leadership -- and they most certainly are not interested in "vindicating" Bush's freedom agenda or the Iraq war, an idea which almost all would find somewhere between laughable, bewildering, and deeply offensive. Suspicion of American intentions runs deep, as does folk wisdom about decades of U.S. collaboration with Mubarak. They are not really parsing Hilary Clinton's adjectives. Their protest has a dynamic and energy of its own, and while they certainly want Obama to take their side forcefully and unequivocally they don't need it.

    What they do need, if they think about it, is for Obama to help broker an endgame from the top down --- to impose restraints on the Egyptian military's use of violence to repress protests, to force it to get the internet and mobile phones back online, to convince the military and others within the regime's inner circle to ease Mubarak out of power, and to try to ensure that whatever replaces Mubarak commits to a rapid and smooth transition to civilian, democratic rule. And that's what the administration is doing. The administration's public statements and private actions have to be understood as not only offering moral and rhetorical support to the protestors, or as throwing bones to the Washington echo chamber, but as working pragmatically to deliver a positive ending to a still extremely tense and fluid situation.
     
  8. basso

    basso Member
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    which is?
     
  9. A_3PO

    A_3PO Member

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    Surely you cannot be this big a moron (maybe I'm giving you too much credit).

    Go ahead and be a knee-jerk without knowing anything. It's your programming. Fine and dandy. I'll come down to your level for a minute.

    Just what exactly is Obama supposed to do? Lay it all out for us O wise one. Tell us what he should do and what the result will be. I didn't realize you knew so much Egypt. I also didn't know the U.S. had control of what is happening.

    Maybe Obama should have done what our catastrophic disaster of a previous president did in Venezuela, which was congratulate the country's new leadership prematurely. After all, that's what knee-jerks do.
     
  10. thadeus

    thadeus Member

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    No he didn't.
     
  11. ChrisBosh

    ChrisBosh Member

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  12. Grizzled

    Grizzled Member

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    This is exactly right. The problem at this point is that this seems to have been a largely spontaneous uprising with no leadership, and as such it’s been a reaction against what it doesn’t like, but it hasn’t thought through what it wants instead. I think what we need now is for some leaders to emerge on the reform side to help guide the process. Otherwise it might just burn out.
     
  13. Major

    Major Member

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    I think you may have misread. The Pentagon talks were scheduled and already occurring when the protests broke out. The Army guy left those talks early to deal with the crisis.
     
  14. ChrisBosh

    ChrisBosh Member

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    LOL, I did misread it....I'm still learning english......since I'm from Canada :eek:
     
  15. FranchiseBlade

    Supporting Member

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    I know the in Iran situation Obama did exactly what the leaders of the uprising movement wanted from the US. They were even saying that more involvement from Obama would have been detrimental.

    There have been signs in this demonstration saying To not support Mubarak that they don't want to hate the U.S.

    So far Obama has done what he could. I hope that he handles this as well as he did the Iranian uprising.
     
  16. basso

    basso Member
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    wrong. if the report is accurate, planning began for this in 2008, with help from the Bush, and perhaps subsequently Obama, admin.
     
  17. mc mark

    mc mark Member

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    Hey genius, why would the US plot against their own self interest in the region?

    if the report is accurate,

    indeed
     
  18. basso

    basso Member
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    Democracy is against our self-interest?
     
  19. Dubious

    Dubious Member

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    The 1960's Democrat way at this would have been to subvert the people.

    You get some money and you get some money, you all get some money.

    AND, we've got 1.3 billion dollars for who ever can form the next stable government. Are you listening ... People's Army?


    For the 400,000 document impaired, what is the wikkileak summary about Egypt?
     
  20. Kwame

    Kwame Member

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    Obama is in way over his head and let's not even talk about the incompetent Hillary Clinton.
     

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