1. Welcome! Please take a few seconds to create your free account to post threads, make some friends, remove a few ads while surfing and much more. ClutchFans has been bringing fans together to talk Houston Sports since 1996. Join us!

Let freedom ring.

Discussion in 'BBS Hangout: Debate & Discussion' started by Northside Storm, Jan 27, 2011.

  1. rhadamanthus

    rhadamanthus Member

    Joined:
    Nov 20, 2002
    Messages:
    14,304
    Likes Received:
    596
    This would be incredible.
     
  2. Dubious

    Dubious Member

    Joined:
    Jun 18, 2001
    Messages:
    18,318
    Likes Received:
    5,090
    The Egyptian revolution is looking more and more like a class war to me. As usual, the have-nots get fed up and take down the haves. I don't guess you can actually separate the political from the economic because a socialized system requires a democracy as much as an oligarchical system requires that the government suppress the people.

    Why are there so few actual socialist democracies? It seems like the most logical system to me.

    (no, not a one party system, a true elective system, of shared national wealth)
     
    #622 Dubious, Feb 10, 2011
    Last edited: Feb 10, 2011
  3. rhadamanthus

    rhadamanthus Member

    Joined:
    Nov 20, 2002
    Messages:
    14,304
    Likes Received:
    596
    Capitalism. *Insert everyone's favorite Rudolph Rocker quote here*

    EDIT: Actually that should really be "greed", with capitalism as the preferred tool...
     
    #623 rhadamanthus, Feb 10, 2011
    Last edited: Feb 10, 2011
  4. AroundTheWorld

    Joined:
    Feb 3, 2000
    Messages:
    83,288
    Likes Received:
    62,281
    You mean something like in Scandinavia or to some extent Netherlands, Germany, etc.?
     
  5. rhadamanthus

    rhadamanthus Member

    Joined:
    Nov 20, 2002
    Messages:
    14,304
    Likes Received:
    596
    CAIRO – Egypt's military announced on national television that it has stepped in to "safeguard the country" on Thursday and assured protesters that President Hosni Mubarak will meet their demands in the strongest indication yet that Egypt's longtime leader has lost power. In Washington, the CIA chief said there was a "strong likelihood" Mubarak will step down Thursday.

    The dramatic announcement showed that the military was taking control after 17 days of protests demanding Mubarak's immediate ouster spiraled out of control.

    Gen. Hassan al-Roueini, military commander for the Cairo area, told thousands of protesters in central Tahrir Square, "All your demands will be met today." Some in the crowd held up their hands in V-for-victory signs, shouting "the people want the end of the regime" and "Allahu akbar," or "God is great," a victory cry used by secular and religious people alike.

    more
     
  6. mc mark

    mc mark Member

    Joined:
    Aug 31, 1999
    Messages:
    26,195
    Likes Received:
    471
    Just got word from my Egyptian friend.

    It's happening
     
  7. rhadamanthus

    rhadamanthus Member

    Joined:
    Nov 20, 2002
    Messages:
    14,304
    Likes Received:
    596
    Reuters indicates the reports of Mubarak's impending resignation are not true.
     
  8. JuanValdez

    JuanValdez Member

    Joined:
    Feb 14, 1999
    Messages:
    35,055
    Likes Received:
    15,229
    My bet is he does resign today. Either way though, Egypt's not out of the woods by a long shot. The new boss might be the same as the old boss. Wake me up when they have legitimate elections and those elected get to actually occupy their offices.
     
  9. SamFisher

    SamFisher Member

    Joined:
    Apr 14, 2003
    Messages:
    61,819
    Likes Received:
    41,289
    Hosni looks like he's promising "The Decision"

    Is he takiing his talents to South Beach? Geneva? Tune into Al Jazeera for more.
     
  10. A_3PO

    A_3PO Member

    Joined:
    Apr 29, 2006
    Messages:
    46,628
    Likes Received:
    12,028
    Probably the wonderful beach in Jeddah, Saudi Arabia. Not much drama on this one.
     
  11. AMS

    AMS Member

    Joined:
    Oct 8, 2003
    Messages:
    9,646
    Likes Received:
    218
    Right next to Mr. Ali

    [​IMG]
     
  12. Mathloom

    Mathloom Shameless Optimist

    Joined:
    Oct 4, 2008
    Messages:
    21,084
    Likes Received:
    22,528
    This was an eventuality. Great milestone, but the revolution continues tomorrow either way. Suleiman has to go.
     
  13. Deji McGever

    Deji McGever יליד טקסני

    Joined:
    Oct 12, 1999
    Messages:
    4,013
    Likes Received:
    952
    That's the position pretty much of Hadash, the only true mixed Jewish/Arab party. I don't have a problem with them. Even where I disagree with them, they aren't hypocrites at least. They've always supported a single state and always supported equality and never relented or sold out.

    Honestly, if Hadash had their way and tomorrow all of Israel and the Occupied Territory became one state with equal suffrage, I don't care what it called itself or what it's flag looked like or what religion it's head of state was as long as he (or she) wasn't a corrupt opportunist, but it isn't going to happen.

    Out of 120 seats in the Knesset, Hadash has...4. So your idea is shared by about 1 in 30 Israeli voters. It's hard sell, unfortunately. The only way you'll see a truly secular and democratic state is if Tel Aviv/Jaffa secedes and declares independence.

    As an aside, the other relevant Left (and equally inconsequential party) is Meretz. The only real difference between it and Hadash is that it supports the two-state solution, which in Israeli political language, makes it "Zionist."

    The only parties not "Zionist" are Hadash, religious parties, like Shas, who given the chance would create a theocracy that would rival Iran's, and the small parties that support Arab interests, like Balad, which the majority of Arabs don't support.


    Most religions privilege themselves over other religions and ideas. Any religion tends to become authoritarian and discriminating when it can afford to be.

    I've said more than once that it's anachronistic and a very 19th Century idea. I suggest reading some Jabotinsky. Despite being the supposed spirtual hero to Begin and later, the Likudniks for his militant stances, he simply understood that settling a large population of Jews in the Levant would inevitably lead to conflict. But he was outspokenly democratic, secular, and expected that the conflict would be resolved and lead to a state very much like the one you described. Today someone talking that way would be branded a fringe Leftist.

    Edit: Don't want to lose the point. The point is, he sounds a lot more like Giuseppe Garibaldi than he does Bibi Netanyahu, and this is Israel's right-wingest "founding father."

    You'll have people argue things like that due to their own ethnocentric insecurities, but I think that genetically speaking, most people are pretty much the same. I also think it's irrelevant about who was where first and who built what when.

    When I'm confronted by those kinds of arguments from anyone trying to stake a claim due to ancient lineage, I pull out the Romans. I say, with arguments like those you might as well invite Berlusconi to occupy the area and build more aqueducts. Romans built more than anyone did here, left more archeological evidence, and probably have as much of a representation in the genetic mix as any other group ;)

    No one likes that very much, but they usually get my point and shut up about it, unless they decide to be clever and say there are no Romans in Israel to cede power to. That's when I tell them that my great-grandfather was from Modena, and if anyone wants to declare me emperor I'll happily provide them with bread and circuses and build really nice temples to Artemis and Jupiter.
     
  14. Carl Herrera

    Carl Herrera Member

    Joined:
    Feb 16, 2007
    Messages:
    45,153
    Likes Received:
    21,575
    I don't think it's coincidence that Jerry Sloan just resigned.
     
  15. B-Bob

    B-Bob "94-year-old self-described dreamer"
    Supporting Member

    Joined:
    Jul 26, 2002
    Messages:
    35,985
    Likes Received:
    36,838
    The one guy who could make Egyptians miss Mubarak!
     
  16. Deckard

    Deckard Blade Runner
    Supporting Member

    Joined:
    Mar 28, 2002
    Messages:
    57,785
    Likes Received:
    41,212
    I heard that Sloan and Mubarak are buying pads next to each other in Venezuela.
     
  17. Carl Herrera

    Carl Herrera Member

    Joined:
    Feb 16, 2007
    Messages:
    45,153
    Likes Received:
    21,575
    So, Jerry Sloan is taking over Egypt and Mubarak is coaching the Jazz? It's like "Trading Places" except the black guy is now Egyptian and they are both old.
     
  18. JeopardE

    JeopardE Member

    Joined:
    Jun 29, 2006
    Messages:
    7,418
    Likes Received:
    246
    Hilarious #ReasonsMubarakIsLate tag trending on twitter.

    "Changing Facebook status to "It's complicated."

    "You think it's easy packing gold bullion bars into vintage Louis Vuitton luggage?"

    "Hairdresser who used to paint my hair is demonstrating in Tahrir square"

    "Trying to Google map Saudi Arabia but forgot he switched off the Internet"

    "Real housewives of Dubai is on"

    "He said no to the Panda"
     
    1 person likes this.
  19. ChrisBosh

    ChrisBosh Member

    Joined:
    Mar 29, 2006
    Messages:
    4,325
    Likes Received:
    300
    CIA chief says Mubarak is going to step down, sounds great!!! Mubarak must have informed his higher ups ahead of time.

    BTW the protest really died down until they released Wael Ghonim, whoever came up with that idea is probably 6 feet under. Don't know if anyone saw his interview, but he started crying when he saw picture of the 300 people who died protesting. Then he went straight back to Tahrir Square and electrified the crowd, powerful stuff.
     
  20. ChrisBosh

    ChrisBosh Member

    Joined:
    Mar 29, 2006
    Messages:
    4,325
    Likes Received:
    300
    It's done, he said "peaceful transfer of power will start from now"... ......more to come.....
     

Share This Page