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Les = Best Owner in the NBA - Forbes.

Discussion in 'Houston Rockets: Game Action & Roster Moves' started by Chopped, Dec 3, 2008.

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  1. Uprising

    Uprising Contributing Member

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    [​IMG]
     
  2. JVG>Adelman

    JVG>Adelman Member

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    Is that you who's getting owned?

    Read the article again. You've either not read the article, or you have reading comprehension problems.
     
  3. tinman

    tinman Contributing Member
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    What about hiring JVG when Rudy T was getting cancer treatment?
    Why would Rudy T, a Rocket for 30+ years (player and coach) go become a Lakers coach right afterwards?

    In the end, JVG and Rudy got the same treatment from the boss.
     
  4. JVG>Adelman

    JVG>Adelman Member

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    So? You're only supporting my statements. That JVG and Rudy T both were treated classlessly, and also to add the fact that Hakeem Olajuwon was also treated like dirt at the end of his career, prove without a doubt that Les is not a classy owner.

    I wouldn't be surprised if both Yao and T-Mac were also dumped when their usefulness ends.
     
  5. tinman

    tinman Contributing Member
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    Yao will never get traded.
     
  6. tinman

    tinman Contributing Member
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    Steve Patterson was the architect of the Rockets first championship,
    responsible for brining Thorpe, Maxwell, Kenny Smith, Horry together
    what did Les do for him after finally getting a team to pass the 2nd round? (and almost making the WCF)?

    http://www.basketball-reference.com/blog/?p=443

    Offseason Moves: At the time, the summer of 1993 was marked by front office turmoil. In August, owner Les Alexander fired GM Steve Patterson after a 55-win ‘92-93 campaign, citing simply that “the organization wasn’t running smoothly.” His replacement was Tod Leiweke — who would eventually resign in January ‘94, after just 4+ months on the job. On the basketball front, though, the Rockets quietly added the final pieces to their championship foundation, selecting Sam Cassell out of Florida State with the 24th pick in the draft and trading a 2nd-round pick to Portland for G Mario Elie.

    Steve Patterson (loyalest to Houston..hehe) became the architect for bringing the Texans to Houston. Yes, McNair was the money, Patterson was the brain.

    Afterwards he joined the Blazers and brought people like Aldridge and Roy to the organization

    That first championship.. Steve deserved a ring
     
  7. Kwame

    Kwame Contributing Member

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    Why don't we have a legit back-up big man on this team? Where's his "willingness" to open up his pocket book for a backup C? Yao Ming is the only player over 6'9" on the Rockets. It's because Les doesn't want to go over the luxury tax. I'm not a big fan of Mark Cuban, but he will do whatever it takes to win. Les Alexander will not. Rockets need to go over the luxury tax to bring in a back-up for Yao and a decent pg, but they won't since Les is cheap. These are the only two moves he needs to make in order to transform the Rockets into an elite team on the level of the Lakers and Celtics, but he's too cheap to go over the luxury tax so it won't happen.

    What about the salaries that have been dumped on the Rockets? They could've gotten Scola without taking on Butler's contract. Luis fet that he was being held hostage by San Antonio and wanted out. The best part was trading for Mike James from Minnesota. Not only did they get Justin Reed's salary dumped on them, but they had to pay James's trade kicker, which was the deal breaker for the Rockets initally when they were trying to sign him...Lol.

    As others have mentioned, lets not forget the classless way he let Rudy T, Steve Patterson (who built the Rockets' championship teams), Calvin Murphy, and JVG go. Lets also not foget those ridiculous clown uniforms he had legends like Clyde, Dream, and Barkley wearing.
     
  8. JVG>Adelman

    JVG>Adelman Member

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    And you base this on what? If Olajuwon could be dumped in the trash bin, Yao can be dumped even more easily.

    I think if you told Yao that, he'd laugh in your face. When Yao's commercial value fades, he will be traded, or dumped faster than you can say, Les is cheap.
     
  9. tinman

    tinman Contributing Member
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    When is Yao's commercial value going to fade? when a whole bunch of other chinese superstars emerge in the near future?

    I don't think so.
     
  10. Shroopy2

    Shroopy2 Contributing Member

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    Its almost worst the risk keeping Yao, and McGrady, so everyone can say FINALLY yes success, and boost the interest in Yao again which would of course help the business interests. Rather than let YAo go and having different players doing the same Win-Loss %, but only bringing in 1/3 of the current income

    If the cap limit was 5000 million people would be saying we need to go over it, just from the fact its an identifiable limit, and going past it "puts you over". Smart people know not to blow extra money than is necessary just for the sake of trying. What did big spending get the Knicks?
     
  11. echu888

    echu888 Member

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    I am very grateful for the contributions that Mutumbo has given over the last two seasons, but here's a hint : he ain't the savior of this organization, and signing him, although a popular move, won't necessarily guarantee anything that we don't already have. He's by far the best 89 year old basketball player on the planet but he does have his liabilities as well. I see the slowness in signing him as an indication that the club is keeping its options open depending on the needs as the season progresses. With McGrady's bum-knee this is growing more and more to be a wise choice, when you consider Luther Head is starting in his place. Nothing against Luther, it's just that he's not that great. Secondly, to acquire a serious PG that doesn't have the same liabilities that Rafer has - generally you have give something to get something. Most of the trades proposed on the forum are total homer nonsense (Chuck Hayes, Von Wafer, Luther Head, Shane Battier for Chris Paul - look the salaries match! Get it done!). Plus, I am sure the club sees the deficiencies at the PG position, but it is a relatively delicate situation as everytime Rafer goes out and someone fills in for him, the club always seems to be in worse situation than when Rafer is present. So, in looking at both of these, I don't necessarily see indications that Alexander is being "one of the cheapest owners in the NBA." But hey, it's not my money, who cares that $2m players actually end up costing $4m players. They're game changers for crying out loud!!!!111

    Next, what about the salaries that have been dumped on the Rockets? What does that have to do with Les's willingness to spend? If anything, it shows that he is willing to pay up when the value is right. SA's willingness to part with Scola looked to Les's crew like a good deal and they were willing to pay for a dude who wouldn't end up on the squad in order to get him. Sound like a cheap guy to you?

    Lastly, the fact that we "fired" a coach like Van Gundy in order to pick up a coach like Rick Adelman.... does that sound like a downsizing money saving move to you? No, they are quite different, but both are top notch, highly regarded coaches across the league. Cost savings, or a commitment to winning? Classless? OK, If you say so. It happens all the time. It's part of the business.

    Rudy T? When he went to the Lakers was only able to coach for 41 games. The dude was in bad shape physically and not able to handle the rigors of a season. Hard decision but the right one. And again, the fact that we had a great coach like Rudy T at the helm through our finest years - is that because of or in spite of Les Alexander? He's a cheap owner so it must've been in spite of him.

    Olajuwon? Well. The Rockets were afraid of throwing a season (or more) out of "loyalty" to a player when clearly the best thing would've been a graceful retirement. This is a tough situation, but as a fan, I want us to field the best team year after year, and I don't care if it's Olajuwon, Yao, or Bagwell, if their time has passed, I am very grateful for all they did, but they should probably take a step back for the sake of the organization. I know not everyone sees it that way, but that's my view. Is that the owner being cheap? Depends on how you look at it, but I happen to agree with that approach. Life is full of hard and sometimes unpopular choices. Of course, the owner is always the bad guy. The fact is, Les is far from one of the worst or one of the cheapest owners in the NBA. I would argue that he is one of the better ones.
     
  12. JVG>Adelman

    JVG>Adelman Member

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    The Facts do not agree with you.

    According to the Forbes article, here are some facts for you.

    #1. Houston has a 10 year, 600 MILLION contract with Fox.
    #2. Since Yao came on board, revenues have doubled to 156million.

    And yet, despite this, Leslie Alexander refuses to pay the Luxury Tax.

    That is not being a Great Owner from the viewpoint of the Fans, or Winning. That is being CHEAP.

    Leslie Alexander is possibly, the cheapest owner in the NBA!
     
  13. JVG>Adelman

    JVG>Adelman Member

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    Now, let's examine several other owners that the article mentioned.

    San Antonio won TWO titles since 2003.
    Detroit won One.
    Miami, in one of the POOREST markets, won a title.

    Sorry..when you evaluate the "Best" owner from the viewpoint of WINNING and Fans, Leslie Alexander has been TERRIBLE. Oh, he's profited GREATLY for himself by doubling revenue, and signing the most lucrative Cable contract 10 years, 600 million, but he's CHEAP. And the team we had since 2002 reflects that. We had terrible players outside of Yao and T-Mac.


    HE won't go over the Luxury tax. That's being CHEAP.
     
  14. Kwame

    Kwame Contributing Member

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    Mutombo has proven doubters like yourself wrong the past two seasons and I think he'll do it again if given the opportunity. He's in phenomenal shape for a basketball player of practically any age. Nobody said he was the saviour, but since Yao is so fragile this team needs a traditional back-up C. Also, Mutombo will guaratee things we don't have like size and shot blocking. What part of the Rockets don't have anybody over 6'9" outside of Yao do you not understand? Not to mention they have zero shotblockers. Deke is still one of the best rebounders and shot blockers in the league. I'm pretty sure he can continue his stellar play of the last two seasons for 15 mpg this season. Moreover, the slowness in signing him is not an indication of the club keeping its options open, its a clear indication of Les being cheap and unwilling to go over the luxury tax.

    When you have such a frugal (since you seem to be highly sensitive to the word cheap) owner who has a mentality of keeping the salary cap below luxury tax levels at all costs, every little bit counts. The contracts of Butler and Reed are approximately $4 million and who knows how much the Mike James trade kicker was. There was no need to take on either of those contracts and the trade kicker they paid for Mike James just made the organization and your buddy Les look stupid. $4 million to work with means that Mutombo would already be signed for the veteran's minimum, which would have left left the Rockets with a few million to work with while still under the cap.

    As far as a pg, Mo Williams was obviously available and so was Kirk Henriech, but the Rockets didn't go after any of these guys. I promise you the Bulls would take Rafer and fillers for Henriech since they got Rose, but it's a moot point since he's injured. The real point is the Rockets didn't even try to get them - most likely because they might've put good ole' Les close and, heaven forbid, possibly over that luxury tax threshold (which is why I brought up salaries being dumped & trade kickers being paid unecessarily by the Rockets earlier). Ah, but who cares about actually being an elite team on the same level as the Celtics and Lakers? Let's wait another 11 years in addition to the 11 we've been waiting for the Les Alexander led Rockets to get out of the first round of the playoffs! Hurray for mediocrity!

    The other points I brought up touch upon Les's character. He handled the Steve Patterson, Rudy T, Calvin Murphy, and JVG situations in a classless manner. I don't think any rational person will dispute that.

    In general, his cheapness manifested in his unwillingness to go over the luxury tax and the classless way he's handled many situations that could and should have been handled more delicately doesn't make him a good owner in my opinion - at least not one that has integrity and that's truly committed to winning.

    In your view, it obviously does.
     
  15. solid

    solid Contributing Member

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    Exactly, Les' tenure doesn't even include winning one playoff series. He may be good at business, but basketball is another matter.
     
  16. SamFisher

    SamFisher Contributing Member

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    Forbes also deemed Kevin McHale to be the best GM in sports due to the most laughable formula I have ever seen, so take it with a grain of salt.
     
  17. echu888

    echu888 Member

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    OK, again, regarding Mutumbo - I perceive that as an effort by the club to keep options open based upon the needs of the club. It's apparent that you think a backup center is among the greatest needs the Rockets have right now, but what if McGrady's knee doesn't recover in 3 weeks time, and Head is your starting SG. Will backup C still be the most pressing need in your eyes? I speculate that all things considered, "frugal Les" will still end up giving the OK to sign Mutumbo anyway before the season is over.

    Since you've brought this up, the burden is on you to provide the proof. You know for sure that no offseason efforts were made to get Hinrich? You were privy to insider discussions and conversations, or did Morey make a public statement in this regard? If there were no efforts made to get a PG was that due to Les's bankroll restrictions, or the overall Rockets braintrust evaluating the needs one by one and seeing other ways to shuffle the pieces? Prove your claim please.

    In regards to being an "elite team on the same level as the Celtics and Lakers", what was the hype on the Rockets coming into this season? With the acquisition of Artest, and adding Barry to what is considered a deep bench, we were considered a serious threat for the title, perhaps an elite team if you will. Unfortunately, reality has burst that bubble, but the issue is that the front office is committed to fielding a great great team with championship potential.

    Just to point out the implications of the luxury tax - perhaps you know this, but to be clear ... going over the luxury tax means :

    1) pay the salary (i.e., + $2.5m)
    2) pay the tax (i.e. + $2.5m)
    3) miss out on the year-end wealth redistribution to the teams that are under the tax (estimated + $2.5m)

    So, signing an aging veteran for $2.5m can actually cost approximately $7.5m to the club. For a club whose GM is known as Mr. Moneyball of this had better be a high return for this kind of cost. Even that considered, like I said, I would not be surprised if the Rockets passed the luxury tax this year. But, since it stings three times as hard, better make sure its the right move. You may be convinced of what this club needs but I am glad the front office is patient in taking their time to consider.
     
  18. roslolian

    roslolian Member

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    The article wasn't talking about being a great owner in the normal sense of the word. Forbes is all about measuring teams financial value, and their criteria reflects that:

    *Valuation Growth
    *Revenue Growth
    *Total Operating Profits
    *On-Court Performance Rank: 4th (0.578 winning pct., four playoff appearances)
    *Market Size
    *Median Income


    If you look at the criteria they used, only one measures the team's success, so when Forbes say he is a "great" owner, it means Les is a great businessman. Its not a matter of being cheap or generous at all.

    With that said, anyone who considers Les Alexander to be cheap has got to be out their minds. Les is a great owner, and we are lucky to have him. If you want cheap, then why you you take a look at Robert Sarver. He dismantled the Suns all because of his cheapness.

    Cheap moves the past few years:
    *Selling your picks for cash (Magic)
    *Trading Kurt Thomas for two second round picks and cash (Suns)
    *Trading Luis freakin' Scola for cash and 2nd round pick (Spurs)
    *Letting James Posey walk (Celtics)

    Cheap owners routinely sabotage their teams in order to earn a quick buck. Name me one instance that Les has Alexander has done that. In fact, he buys a draft pick every year, which shows how committed he is to putting the best possible team on the floor.

    The one thing Les has done which can be seen as "cheap" is his refusal to go over the luxury tax line and sign Dikembe Mutombo. This means that Les Alexander is a terrible owner because losing out on an average of 4 miilion dollars in order to sign a minimum player is the ultimate sign of cheapness :rolleyes:

    Teams that went over the Luxury tax in the 07-08 Season and have no ring to show for it:
    *Mavs
    *Knicks
    *Cleveland Cavaliers
    *Denver Nuggets
    *Miami Heat
    *Los Angeles Lakers
    *Phoenix Suns


    Les Alexander may be rich but he's also not stupid. He's not going to throw money away if he's not sure the move will not result in a championship, and frankly neither will I. Neither should you, unless you just happen to be some random dude writing in a forum and talking about spending another person's money. Oh wait :rolleyes:
     
  19. Pizza_Da_Hut

    Pizza_Da_Hut I put on pants for this?

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    Who did Les get to do that puff piece? Seriously, it had no substance, but all in all it's good media coverage.
     
  20. Invisible Fan

    Invisible Fan Contributing Member

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    That pretty harsh. I thought the blame on failure also fell on the GM, coach, and players.
     

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