17, you might want to run it by Manny just so there wont be two running at the same time. So which first Manny? The solo artists or leftovers? I'm a little confused, but glad to see you are gonna keep the tourneys going
Solo artists plc, Actually I can email you what I have (same list I am going to email Batman and mc mark) and then the 4 of us can come to an agreement on what the field should be. But you will need to email me first - so email me through the board if you are interested and tell me what email address to reply back to (if different from the one that you used to sign up for the board with).
I don't know...most rap fans are kids, and most kids didn't know rap existed before 1995... number 1 seeds Eric B. and Rakim Dr. Dre Tupac Eminem (questionable, but I think he's had more influence on rap in the past six years than anybody)
Manny, would you cc me also on the possible match-ups. Otherwise I would feel 'un inner-circle' worthy. Actually, I have a couple suggestions regarding bands that did not get in on my tourney due to wanting to honor various bands some of the members felt strongly about.
well actually by leaps and bounds in sales and airplay, but i know that's not really relevant. there's no right or wrong in judging music but blur never came close to writing anything as quality as definitely maybe or for that matter what's the story morning glory.
Sorry BigM, but I have to agree with FB on this one. You are right that Oasis' first 2 albums were masterpieces but they flamed out pretty quickly. Blur, on the other hand, remained remarkably consistent throughtout their career - only starting to falter with the last one, "Think Tank" (which is still better than most stuff out there today), but that was because long-time guitarist Graham Coxon had left the group.
I don't like to hear "kids don't know what real rap is." That is BS! Yeah, I first started liking rap around '99, and I've loved it ever since. No, I don't listen to this Rakim, or Tribe, or Kweli - this does not matter. Just like there is different kinds of Rock, there is different kinds of rap. I LOVE the mainstream stuff on the radio such as 50 Cent, Lil Jon, Eminem, Chingy, etc. The beats today are way better then what they had back then (for the most part...in my opinion). Anyways, I respect your opinion in that you think the best rappers were around during the 80's and early 90's, but the tournament shouldn't be only older stuff because that's "the real rap." Moe, if you are the one who does the rap tourney, I hope you make room for a lot of the mainstream rappers. I think the thing will be totally flawed if it does not include these artists: 2pac, 50 Cent, Hot Boyz, Big Tymers, Bone Thugs N Harmony, UGK, Chingy, Cypress Hill, David Banner, D-12, Eminem, Dr. Dre, DMX, Eightball & MJG, Eazy E, Fabolous, G-Unit, The Game, Geto Boyz, Guerrilla Black, J-Kwon, Ice Cube, Ja Rule, Jadakiss, Jay-Z, Jermaine Dupri, Juvenile, Kanye West, Lil' Flip, Lil' Scrappy, Lil' Wayne, Lil Jon & The East Side Boyz, LL Cool J, LUDACRIS, Lloyd Banks, Master P, Paul Wall & Chamillionaire, Mike Jones, Murphy Lee, Nas, N.E.R.D., Mos Def, Nelly, Obie Trice, The Notorious B.I.G., O.D.B., Outkast, Petey Pablo, Run DMB, Snoop Dogg, Slim Thug, T.I., Three Six Mafia, Trillvile, Twista, Westside Connection, Xzibit, Ying Yang Twins, Young Buck, Youngbloodz. Groups should have their member names listed in their seeding. For example, Big Tymers (Baby & Mannie Fresh) or G-Unit (50 Cent, Lloyd Banks, & Young Buck) or Westside Connection (Ice Cube, WC, Mac-10). That way rappers wouldn't be on there by themself and as a group.
There shouldn't be many groups involved except acts like De La Soul where there isn't a major soloist (i.e.) you shouldn't have Tribe called Quest and Q-tip (solo) or 50 cent and G- unit both in the tourney IMHO. Without a doubt there should be a mix of old and new in the tourney.
How the hell are the UnderGround Kings "mainstream"? They should've changed their name to AGK when they did "Big Pimpin" I'm of the generation with the early 90's through today. I'd certainly participate with this bracket...but how do you do stuff like Westside Connect/NWA having Ice Cube in both of those highly successful groups? And is "Lil Jon & The East Side Boyz" an artist or group or what? I really like some of the Lil Jon beats, but for the most part - isn't he just a producer? Ah, we'll get into that later... PS - I'm preemptively voting against any artist who uses the prefix " Lil' ."
Funny, I don't remember saying that Funny, I don't remember saying that, either So...a rapper's solo career doesn't count? I guess all those millions of records that Cube and Dre sold after NWA broke up never existed... Don't you have some algebra homework to do?
I understand liking the early Oasis, I enjoy it myself. But it sounds more polished(I prefer a rougher more raw sound), and while both bands obviously had the Beatle roots in the music firmly, Blur seemed capable of that plus more. The one thing I love Blur for, and the reason they lost the sales/airplay to Oasis was the album they put out. Both bands were rivals and both bands had albums that were really popular. Both were poised to be the next big deal, and had new albums coming out, that would decide the winner. Oasis came out with another strong album in the same style cemented their fan base and propelled them to the top. Blur on the other hand came out with an album that was more archaic, and in the style of a lot of the village green era Kinks stuff, which is really hilarious to think about when they were going to try and win the decisive battle with their bitter rivals. For Oasis to come out with that off the wall album, was a gutsy/stupid/hilarious/brilliant move. I understand why Oasis won that battle, but that move forever cemented my place in the Blur camp.
Lil' Jon is starting to become a big producer it seems. You can tell which songs he produces because he has to get his signature "Yeah" and "What" on the track. Lil' Jon & The East Side Boyz really is a group, but the other two mostly just chant the same stuff throughout the song and rarely have real verses, that's not always the case, though. Ha, don't hate on the "Lil's." Flip & Scrappy are two of the better rappers out there today. I didn't say you did say those things, did I? I was just stating what I've heard; I guess I didn't make that clear enough. I wasn't accusing you of anything. When the hell did I say not to count a guy's solo career? I DIDN'T! I was trying to explain that his name should be on there as part of a group in parentheses or by himself - not both. That might seem obvious, but then again, some rapper's have had solo careers way different then being part of a group. For example, Westside Connection deserves credit, but Ice Cube has done a lot of good stuff on his own without WC & Mac-10. That was a real nice shot with the algebra comment, that really hurts.
Manny, it's the Jimi Hendrix Experience, and they were a band. I swear to, well, whomever, that they were a band. One could argue that Band of Gypsies were a backup for Hendrix as a solo artist, but the Experience were a band. B-A-N-D! (And yes, I'm having fun messin' with you... and I owe you an e-mail! But, dammit, they were a band!!)
Sorry, there is no way Master P is going on that list. He is the worst rapper I have ever heard despite his incredible ability to copy anything popular and make an impressive sum of cash from it. If we are doing this, we are going to do it right. I've been doing some research and coming up with what I feel will be an all around solid list for the greatest Hip-Hop Artist/Group of all time. As far as the whole solo artist/group thing, I agree that there shouldn't be groups and solo artists taking up more than 1 slot (except for a few exceptions for guys who had very successful solo careers like Cube and Dre) i.e. We'll only have Outkast instead of Andre and Big Boi. I have the following names so far. (Note, The Ranking here has nothing to do with actual seeding, it is just the order I was inputting.) 1) Eminem 2) Jay-Z 3) Nas 4) Tupac 5) Notorious B.I.G. 6) Run DMC 7) Outkast 8) Beastie Boys 9) Snoop Dogg 10) Eric B. & Rakim 11) The Roots 12) Public Enemy 13) NWA 14) De La Soul 15) A Tribe Called Quest 16) Mos Def 17) Talib Kweli 18) Fabolous 19) Del The Funkee Homosapien 20) Ludacris 21) Wu-Tang Clan 22) Scarface 23) LL Cool J 24) KRS-One 25) Xzibit 26) Ice-T 27) Ice Cube 28) Slick Rick 29) Redman 30) Kanye West 31) Jadakiss 32) Blackalicious 33) DMX 34) Eazy-E 35) Busta Rhymes 36) Jurassic 5 37) 50 Cent 38) Grandmaster Flash and the Furious 5 39) Big Pun 40) Method Man 41) Cypress Hill 42) D12 43) Dr. Dre 44) Twista 45) Ma$e 46) Lloyd Banks 47) Bone Thugs & Harmony Only a few more to get the field of 64. The rest will probably be more mainstream, but I'm not going to just throw in fillers who will be easily taken down, I want this to be somewhat legit. (Even though goofjobs like ima and fade will be voting for Vanilla Ice every round ) I will probably have the rest within the next couple of days.
Probably not mainstream enough, but I'd add MF Doom. Also, Pete Rock and C.L. Smooth. Also, of course, Hieroglyphics.
Kool Moe Dee, Too Short, Ghetto Boys, Public Enemy, Fat Boys, Dj Jazzy Jeff (Either with or without Fresh Prince), Black Sheep, Onyx, EPMD, Luke Skywalker & The 2 Live Crew, off the top of my head. It's a shame that NWA has to be broken up into induviduals, the group was much stronger than any of them by themselves. Edit: Forgot the women: Queen Latifah and MC Lyte
