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Lee, Walker, & now Maddux? Are Andy & Rog & John Valentin enough?

Discussion in 'Houston Astros' started by eric.81, Jan 2, 2004.

  1. RunninRaven

    RunninRaven Contributing Member
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    I would say Adam Everett is a perfectly capable base stealer. And he is an adequate bunter.
     
  2. azn-baller

    azn-baller Member

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    the only thing that matters is championships...and both the astros and cubs are losers in that statistic
     
  3. eric.81

    eric.81 Contributing Member

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    I agree... BUT, when I look at the Marlins lineup last year, I saw TEAM speed. Pierre, Castillo, Gonzales, Encarnacion (sp?)...

    If you have 1 fast guy in your lineup, he needs to be able to bunt himself on, steal second, then score on a single. You throw 2 more of those guys in the lineup and they can bunt eachother over, both get on a score on a single, maybe beat out a double play ball, double steal, etc... these are the things that are important in playoff baseball and, not coincidentally, these are the things the Astros haven't been able to do.
     
  4. VesceySux

    VesceySux Contributing Member

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    The Cubs haven't won a World Series in 95 years.
    The Astros have only been in existence for 41 years.
    When 2057 rolls around (95 years from the birth of the team), and the Astros have not won a title yet, then we can talk.

    Once again, I say... lovable losers, indeed.
     
  5. eric.81

    eric.81 Contributing Member

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    Well, I guess I can change my thread title... Are Andy & Rog & Jon Valintin Enough??
     
  6. eric.81

    eric.81 Contributing Member

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    Hey guys!! Man, when I posted the above I didn't think that they would ACTUALLY change my thread title but THANKS ADMINS!

    Anyway,

    I just read on espn.com that Pudge is leaning toward signing with Baltimore and the O's are going to rotate Javy & Pudge at DH and Catcher. hmmmm....

    As long as the Cubs/Cards don't get him, I don't care.
     
  7. The Fever

    The Fever Member

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    Exactly. If Dusty Baker uses his pitchers like he did last year, they will run out of gas before the end of the regular season. He overused Prior, luckily for him, he is still young and his arm could take it. If Baker lets him go over 120 pitches several times in the regular season again, he could damage his arm. He overused Zambrano and Z caved in the playoffs. He overused Kerry Wood too, and he wasn't 'Kerry Wood' sharp in the playoffs. The Cubs are very beatable, just because they spend a lot of money doesn't mean jack. Oh yeah, another thing: Has anyone noticed that since MLB started steroid testing, Sammy's numbers have gone down? That could be a real problem for the Cubs if he can't put up 45-50 bombs next year, because other than Derrick Lee, they don't have a real power threat. Alou is getting old, and Aramis is too inconsistent. Losing Kenny Lofton could be a big mistake too with Corey Patterson coming off reconstructive knee surgery. It will be an interesting year, no doubt about it.
     
  8. Rileydog

    Rileydog Contributing Member

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    The key remains Clemens. If we land him, that will create a domino effect. Our top 4 of the rotation would be set. Robertson, Redding, Hernandez will compete for the final spot. One of those two will go to the pen. One will be dealt to bolster the offense. All three are young and have potential. Since young pitching carries a premium, I expect that we could get a capable player back or package one of them to upgrade a starter.

    As for the Cubs, competition at the highest level is mental. We would have the decided edge because of the intangibles that Pettitte and Clemens brings. Who would want to face those two down the stretch of a pennant race? How much confidence will they add to the Stros as they fight for the division in close games? Their intangible contributions are every bit as important as their starts.
     
  9. lalala902102001

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    The cubs are not getting Pudge. They have traded for Michael Barret and declared him their starting catcher (ouch).

    However, it does seem that Greg Maddux is going to sign with either the Cards or the Cubs very soon. If we get Roger, expect the Cubs to make a run at Maddux.

    I wouldn't really be worried about the Cubs, though. They always seem to find a way to lose. I watched that NLCS Game 6 in amazement last October and came away with a conclusion that the Cubs are indeed cursed. They are destinied to lose. Just in case if you haven't heard, the Lovable Losers haven't had a back-to-back winning season for like half a century.

    I would be more worried about the Cards, though. Their offense is as good as ours and their defense is better. Their pitching su.cks for now but it could all change if they get Maddux. The good news is that they are in some seriouis financial constraint and may not be able to take on much more money.
     
  10. RunninRaven

    RunninRaven Contributing Member
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    While I agree that small ball and the ability to utilize its benefits are key in the playoffs when teams are facing good-great pitchers every game, I disagree that a team needs speed demons on the base paths to accomplish that. Sure, the Marlins won with their formula, but they also just barely got by the Cubs, who had to perform a monumental choke job for that to happen.

    Thinking back to previous world series winners, I don't seem to recall too many teams that had speed like the Marlins did. Angels were adept at the small ball, but I never got the feeling like they had outstanding speed. Diamondbacks had Womack and maybe Counsell. Yankees were never tearing up the base paths stealing bases during their championship runs. I just think that, with the general absence of fast, high OBP leadoff hitters in the league these days, teams (and fans) are overexaggerating the importance of having that facet on your team.

    Were the Astros to upgrade the team in terms of speed, it would mean buying in a seller's market, which I don't think is a good idea since the Astros are already pretty good and I would be hesitant to make any large trades that might or might not work out. Speed demons are nice, but if they have trouble making contact, that speed is near useless...Juan Pierre had a really average season in Colorado before this last one where he hit very well. And checking the stats, in the 2003 postseason Juan Pierre attempted 7 stolen bases and was caught 4 times. That's an atrocious percentage. Small ball is nice, but personally I think the Marlins won their championship as much on timely hitting (mostly by Pudge) than by moving the runners over.

    To me, pitching and above average defense (which doesn't necessarily mean speed) are far more important to post season success, and I'm happy to see the Astros addressing at least one of those needs (starting rotation...which will trickle down to the bullpen as well). The Astros were actually pretty good defensively last season, so that doesn't worry me.
     
  11. eric.81

    eric.81 Contributing Member

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    Thanks for your thoughts Raven, great post. I think that maybe I'm just frustrated by the Astros lack of success in the post season and looking for something, anything specific to blame it on. You're right though, the Angels, D'Backs, and Yanks didn't have that "Marlins" type team speed.

    Basically, I've looked up and down the roster and there isn't room for any other starting position player. To add EVERYDAY speed, we'd have to trade Biggio or Hidalgo in the outfield (Berkman's not going anywhere) and in the infield, 2b & SS are the only speed positions. I think it's safe to say that if we trade Hidalgo, we won't get equal value for him, Biggio is retiring here, and Kent & Everett aren't going to be traded either.

    Look, I like our chances in the postseason better than ever this year (we've got to get their first though) so I guess I'm just sweating the Cubs. If we take care of business though, we've got an above average chance of winning 4 out of every 5 because of our pitching. If RC, AP, RO, WM & Company do what they're capable of doing then the 'Stros will be fine!
     
  12. T_in_Charlotte

    T_in_Charlotte Contributing Member

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    Guess we can leave Pudge out of the mix, now that he signed with the Tigers.
     
  13. eric.81

    eric.81 Contributing Member

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    Thank GOD!!

    I guess now the thread title should be "Lee, Walker, & now Maddux? Are Andy & The Rocket enough?"
     

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