Isn't it also strange that these players, like Lebron and Kobe are supposedly better to some youth, even though, none of these players have the same shooting percentages as MJ. Kobe has never shot better than 47% in a season, while MJ did it for 5 consecutive seasons. Also, even though MJ was definitely at the end of his career, his shooting percentages were still better than Allen Iverson's and only slightly worse than Kobe's, TMac's, and VC's. From about 38-40, he was roughly 20-22 ppg scorer, and in some games even outscored some of the league's best shooting guards at the time. If MJ were in his 20s, he'd eat most of these guys alive. He's more driven, more intelligent, and a better athlete most of these shooting guards.
According to PER james' season was as good as wilt and jordan's best season and he is only 24, and his jump shot isn't as good. Image how good he will be when he is 27 or 28.
To be fair, by the time he's 27 or 28, unless he's some sort of god in disguise, James should lose a pretty significant portion of his athleticism. By the time Jordan was in his early 30s, his jumpshot only improved significantly because it had to...he wasn't getting that explosion young Micheal had. Jordan started in the NBA when he was 22, and by 32 he had turned himself into a predominantly jump-shooting/back to the basket player, mostly because he no longer had the speed and hops to play the face-up, "I'ma dunk on you" game. James should be able to do the same thing, but it's incredibly hard to envision Lebron with both the athleticism he has now and the skills/knowledge of a Micheal Jordan.
By the end of next season, LeBron will probably have taken more FTs than McGrady did in his entire career. He has already nearly caught up to him.
LeBron won't have a Kobe Bryant/Michael Jordan jumpshot in his career. You can quote me on that.... I guarantee you, he won't be able to do those mid-range pull up shots at will like that... he's just not that type of player, his jump shot and the way he shoots it is just not made for him to play that way. Most of all, his body is not in the shape of MJ or Kobe... he can't get as much elevation as players like T-Mac, Kobe, Gordon... players who get high elevation on their shot to be able to rise up over defenders and just hit j's.
I'll agree that Lebron's form on his jump shot will prevent him from getting much better at hitting it consistently. He would have to re-invent his shot in order to make it consistently accurate like Kobe's is and Mike's was. His jump shot looks different from game to game and that will have to be fixed if he wants to take it to the next level offensively. Now before the stat patrols comes after me all I have to say is watch Kobe's looks at the basket vs. Lebron's. Kobe sticks that jumper with a man right in his mug all night long. Lebron is still being played for the drive so when he rises up he almost always has a much cleaner look. If (when) defenders are able to keep up with Lebron as he slows down a bit he will have the same hand in his face Kobe sees night after night and unless his jumper improves a lot he won't hit them nearly as much as the Mamba does.
This is a tired subject. Not until someone "surpasses" the accomplishments of MJ, if that ever happens, will it end. I like LeBron, I believe he is better than Kobe not only cause he has done so much with such little talent around him (also his age) but also cause he is an all around player, TEAM PLAYER, he can do it all. He understands what it takes to win. He has that. All that being said There will be only 1 Michael Jordan .
Exactly lol I always understood the jordan rules as chuck daly strategy to be physical with mike and put him on the floor every time he entered the lane
Uh, if MJ played in today's NBA, with the hand-check rules and the fouls called when you sneeze on a superstar, he would have averaged 45 points a game. Lebron is great, but MJ was a lockdown defender who gave 100% at all times when he played. I don't think you should be allowed to post in this thread unless you are actually old enough to have watched a lot of MJ's career.
I've seen Jordan's career, and I would not agree with this in bold. I think depending on the teams he played on in today's era it'd be about the same averages. Though those points would probably come easier, despite what folks may say about "zone" defense in the NBA, which really affects dominant bigs more than swingmen who can actually shoot the basketball. Or Jordan who was excellent at moving without the ball and espcially at using screens off the ball. He'd probably have to develop a more consistent 3 pt. shot though. And overall there is no best player ever to me, not in a 5 man sport. If I had to choose it may be Wilt Chamberlain, but I can't argue against other great bigs like Russell, Kareem, and even more recently Hakeem, Shaq, & Duncan. At least there should be a separation comparing bigs to non-bigs. Jordan, Magic, Larry Bird are the best non-centers we probably have seen. As good as Jordan was, he was overhyped in my opinion. Mainly by the ones who declared him the inarguable greatest ever. Greatest ever, debateable, as is with a slect few. But inarguable? That's just disrespecful to prior greats of the game. (Not entirely referring to you, just posting my general thoughts on this subject).
great first post. welcome You make some good points, but I really don't think MJ was overrated at all. He was legitimately that good on both ends of the court. And with all of the drives to the hoop that he would make (though later in his career they ended with pull up jumpshots as opposed to dunks), if the defenders were called for hand checking, he would have been completely unguardable. It wasn't that he was such an athletic freak (I would compare him to Kobe and lebron is much stronger), he was the most competitive/complete player I have ever watched. You make a good point...it's tough to compare 2's/3's to 5's, but Jordan was pretty much unstoppable (pre-Wizards, of course) come playoff time in an era where his size wasn't unusual. The guy takes almost 2 years off to play baseball, and he comes back and he dominated the 95 playoffs (though they lost to Orlando). People always play the "MJ wasn't his usual self" card during debates about our 95 championship, but the stats don't lie...and he was better that year than he was in the next 3 championship seasons in the playoffs. EDIT: I say this without having seen players like Oscar Robertson or Wilt play, but I am referring to the Lebron comparison. I cannot compare him to players in the 70's and earlier...I started watching the NBA in 86.
Thanks, and I didn't necessarily mean that Jordan was over rated as a ball player (except by some die hards), but over hyped through most of his Bulls career. The hype may have lead to some casual fans overrating him or even some younger fans today who only know of Jordan through DVD's or Youtube videos. And in '95 he played well, but was noticably tired in my opinion, particularly vs. Orlando as the series went on. But it shouldn't be used as an excuse. I still don't think they would have beat the Rockets anyways, especially considering that Horace was gone and they didn't have Rodman yet, and the Bulls would have really nobody to effectively play Hakeem anyways. Not to mention the Drexler addition that year. I really can't disagree with anything else you said, but would like to add Larry Bird's name next to Jordan as far as ultra competitive killers.
Lebron is a better passer and rebounder than MJ. He might not have the shot or the competitive drive, or defense, but he is getting there.
Hmm.. so because he has the ball in his hands more than MJ, he's a better passer? I don't see how he's a better passer, I'd put them equal in that dept... the Bulls of the 90's and the Cavs of now run different offensive schemes. lol.. if MJ got the ball and did his 1 on 1 action like LeBron does now... he'd also be getting triple doubles. The Triangle Offense isn't meant for you to get assists... it's there for you to score points, at least in the position of the triangle Michael was in. I'd also like to add that he'll never get there on the jump shot... with such an ugly release like that, it'll always stay inconsistent... I've said it before.. his body is meant to be a driver... not a jump shooter and thus he'll never be like Kobe or MJ.
People tend to forget that the 95 Bulls were without Horace Grant, who greatly helped Orlando get into the Finals. The next year the Spurs do the UNTHINKABLE and trade their second best player (Rodman) to the Bulls for scraps, eerily similar to the recent Gasol deal. Jordan was way over-hyped as soon as he signed with Chicago.
i really hope lebron realizes what he has at stake in the big picture. he's 24 now. i think the assumption that both he and kobe can stay dominant into their mid 30's like mj did is completely erroneous. you can't underestimate those 2 years jordan took off and the fact that he didn't have the extra mileage on his knees that lebron and kobe did from ages 18-22. this is going to be a terribe analogy because of the scale of the comparison, but i really think just like charles barkley now realizes he wasted his best years due to his indiscipline and never won a championship, similarly lebron might one day realize he had actually had a realistic chance to be the GOAT but didn't put in enough preparation at an early enough age. obviously the comparison is weak - we are talking about work ethic and winning just one title with charles as opposed to skill improvement and winning 5 or 6 titles with lebron, but the point of analogy is about regret. you can't not do something that might make you regret your inaction later in life. kobe bryant is a guy who has completely maxed out his abilities. he's normal sized and not much more athletic than your average all-star swingman. but he has crafted possibly the most lethal offensive arsenal in NBA history through what was obviously countless hours in the gym. you look at lebron, and he's just barely grazing the tip of the iceberg with what he could be doing. there's the body and the passing which are god-given, and then the handles that everyone else has. after that? his low post game consists of a baseline spin move while his outside jumper is extremely shaky and sometimes doesn't even use the same form. forget getting to kobe and mike's level with the footwork, if he just merely developed some basic post moves and a consistent mid range jumper, he would be completely unguardable. and he's already unguardable. am i being too hard on him? yes. but that should be the case when someone has an opportunity to reach a level that others can't because of how great he already is. you can easily say that jordan didn't refine that footwork and those postmoves until his late 20's and that lebron has time, but jordan wasn't chasing michael jordan. that's the difference. obviously his teammates suck but that's not under his control right now. all he can do is make them not appear to suck as hard as they do in actuality. but for the time being, through his physical prime, it appears he will have to work with what he has. i really hope lebron james realizes what he has a chance to do and adds some more elements to his game because he is really short changing himself. don't settle for being the indisputable best player in the league when you have a chance to be the GOAT.
