I'm not saying that LeBron will be better than MJ but I'm saying based off their 1st 6 years you can't just dismiss the discussion all together. I know they played in different Era's but still the facts are the facts.
MJ was the originator of the 3 step take off. He traveled more than anyone in the league. Where do you think Lebron learned it from.
The thing is...two factors are at work here and they conflict against each other... 1) Rules have been set so that it is easier for Lebron to score (no handcheck/defensive 3 seconds) 2) The pace of the NBA was much quicker in Jordan's era, which inflated Micheal's stats.
Did you watch MJ play? Are you aware the cries of favoritism from the refs were louder about MJ back than they are about LeBron today? If we are going to compare the two players, let's be realistic and hold them to the same standards.
I'm not dismissing the discussion... but statistics aren't what determines who's the GOAT.. that starts coming after success happens. It happened with Kobe, Duncan, Shaq... all of them after they won, after LeBron wins.. it'll be more to discuss. Getting back to that point about LeBron single handedly doing things... that's just not true. They play different styles... I mean you look at the teams, the Cavs win by defense, and while the Bulls were also a pretty good defensive team, they won by offense as their driving mechanism. There's just too much to say LeBron did it a lone while also saying MJ couldn't do it alone. Those aren't facts.. you gotta get some numbers out there while also comparing teams.. era's.. EVERYTHING. It's just too much that goes into it, you can't just say that.
I never said LeBron did it by himself. I said he does not have a Pippen beside him. He does not have a Robin. You named Tim Duncan, well his supporting cast was way better than Lebron's supporting cast. You named Kobe and Shaq, both of them had each other. LeBron has Mo Williams as his 2nd option who would be better as a 3rd option. I'm not even saying LeBron is better than MJ or close to it.
Yeah.. but you're talking about just getting out of the first round.. LeBron hasn't won anything yet.. so I wasn't even talking about a championship.
I think this kind of stat comparisons are pointless. The first few years of MJ and Lebron may look similar but that does not matter because what made MJ special was that he was able to win 6 championships in 8 year of span. That is very difficult to do without having a great team. Lebron does not have good supporting cast along with him. I don't think they can win championship this year if they have to play the Lakers in the finals.
he has probably against 10 hall of famers already. but you see there not in the hall yet because they have either just retired or are still playing.
I only brought that up because people act like MJ won Rings the 1st 6 years of his career. My post really isn't based on MJ its more based on the fact that we won't know how good LeBron is until he gets his Pippen, if he ever gets a guy like that.
But people act like LeBron will win 6 rings.... that's really really hard to do, even with his "Pippen". People bring that part of MJ up because it's something that's really unbreakable, especially with the league and how it is today. I'd also like to add.... Amare Stoudemire is in the studios on NBATV wearing something hideous... LMAO. It's just funny to see him sit there with what he has on..
35 pts/game on .535 shooting with 3.16 spg (Jordan's Year 4 stats in the NBA...that's a SICK line!!!!). He averaged almost .500 FG% for his career . I hate the guy...... only if he was humble like Hakeem ....but he IS the greatest player to play the game and I don't see anyone playing currently who's even close to being as good. I'm just looking at the stats, I don't think we can talk about rings since Lebron's career is still being written.
I think LBJ has as good a shot as anyone to surpass MJ as GOAT, but he has to work his butt off the rest of his career to get there. LBJ now is a lot similar to a young MJ, extremely physically gifted and is overwhelming others with pure physical gift. However what made MJ GOAT was how he developed his game as his athleticism gradually faded. He perfected that turnaround jumper, became a master at all kinds of fakes that throws his opponent off balance. He could still score 40, 50 points at 39 years old, with not too much athleticism left. The real challenge for LBJ will come when his body starts to decline, and how will he retool his game to adjust for that.
I agree with this. You notice on LeBron's jumpshot.. sometimes he doesn't use his legs on his shot because of how strong his upper body is. He just uses that for his shot... With Michael it was all about his ability to get elevation on his shot and perfecting that.. (sorta like how Kobe has it now).. If LeBron can develop that same technique.. he'll be deadly.
I was watching some old Jordan game clips on Youtube the other day, and it occurred to me that the biggest difference between today's Kobe and Jordan is the use of pump fakes and head fakes. For Kobe, although it is extremely hard to guard, but usually it is pretty obvious what he wants to do, whether it is a fadeaway jumper, or drive, or pull up, and I think that's why Shane can stick a hand right in his face most of the times. For Jordan, he just have so many moves that every one of them could be fake, and he just kept his defenders guessing. If they bite anyone of them they are doomed, if they don't he will just pull up for a jump shot. I have been wondering for some time how well Shane would fare against a prime Jordan, will he be able to stick a hand in his face. I think this clip below is a great example, Jordan scoring 43 at 40 years old against the Nets. Nets went to the finals that year so it's not like he was doing this to the floor mats of the league. Basically he just froze his defenders with his fake moves, and when he did shoot, they always were a step slower at contesting the shot, which makes everyone of his jump shot a good shot. <object width="425" height="344"><param name="movie" value="http://www.youtube.com/v/4TkvX356cpQ&hl=en&fs=1"></param><param name="allowFullScreen" value="true"></param><param name="allowscriptaccess" value="always"></param><embed src="http://www.youtube.com/v/4TkvX356cpQ&hl=en&fs=1" type="application/x-shockwave-flash" allowscriptaccess="always" allowfullscreen="true" width="425" height="344"></embed></object>
He had to do all those pump fakes because he didn't get any near the elevation on his jumper that he used to. And I think Kobe jumps even higher on his jumper.
It's amazing how Jordan retooled his game as his physical ability declined. He was not able to out jump anyone anymore, but then he developed all those moves that allowed him to still score at will. Back to the topic, I think LBJ is as physically gifted as Jordan, if not more, the key challenge for him to elevate to GOAT status is how he retool his game when his body starts to slow down.
Similar to a young MJ? I think you are really off base on this. They play a very different style game, Lebron has a way bigger reliance on his power game whereas Jordan played with more finesse/craftiness. Jordan was way more creative than Lebron, both on the perimeter and in the paint. It's exactly why Lebron won't be able to maintain this level when he gets older....he;s might be able to develop on this, but this came naturally to Jordan...it's a BIG advantage to him......plus Lebron already has 6 years under his belt, for a non-bigman, your ceiling is usually already set, I don't see this guy really getting way better in any one area. He is what you see now.....I just don't think it's good enough in terms of being the GOAT. He's got to be more effecient and effective to be GOAT, I doubt it'll hapen.
It's way too early to mention Lebron with the greatests like Jordan just yet. Let's see him win a championship first. There is still a very high chance that the Cavs get eliminated in this series.
