TMac, TMac, TMac He has only yet begun to soar... Lebron lacks the crazy special quality that TMac has- at half speed he is full speed. He floats like it is nothing and rips into the lane. Lebron is more physical and has all the skills, but TMac has that something goofy off the wall skill wise thing, you feel he can always step up another notch if needed. It is the ability to take control of the game by himself. I don't think TMac has even fully used it or realized it. I think he will. Lebron may have it, but let's give him some more time. Right now he is just super incredible talent and skilled player who is incredibily young. Not bad- But I believe between the two of them - Tmac is the one who if determined enough could be the dominate player in the league. Jordan was the first to have it. Hakeem had it. Bird had it. Super duper skill and the mystique of taking the game into their hands and controlling the outcome.
How many assists did McGrady average with Gooden? How many points did Gooden average? It's really strange to me how people like to say that Lebron has such a great supporting cast when much of the team is the same team that won 17 games before he was drafted. Sure, they've rebuilt around him some, but it's absolutely ridiculous to say he's got a great supporting cast. It seems to me he MAKES them better. That's what great players do. Sure, Ilgauskas is solid but McInnis didn't look that good in Portland and Gooden was really disappointing in Memphis and Orlando and was gaining a very bad reputation league wide before arriving in Cleveland. I'm not sure how many points and assists the Rockets would average if they were in the East, but I'm sure somebody here can take our stats against east coast teams and figure that out - what I do know is how many games the Cavs won on the East coast before Lebron James. SEVENTEEN!!!!
You really hurt the creditability of your statement right there. While you're correct that all of those players had the quality you speak of, saying Jordan was the first is just ridiculous. Bird was a superstar before Jordan even entered the league, but on top of that, I believe players like Oscar Robertson, Julius Erving, Wilt Champerlain, Kareem Abdul Jabbar and many others had it pre-Jordan. Further, I think that Lebron possesses that quality right now at age 20. I love T-Mac, no doubt, but Lebron is just amazing. He's beenout of highschool and in the league a year and a half and is among the best players in the league. At the same point in T-Mac's career, he was still warming a bench in Toronto.
i'm amazed at shape lebron is in at his age. how many 20 year olds are built like that? actually, i think he looked this way at 18. its freaky...
jmwilliamson- you are right I got Bird out of order. But I don't agree about some of the others, I watched them play (I'm an old guy) back then they dominated, they overpowered but the game was different less individualistic. Never saw that in Jabbar or Dr. J- Just that way of willing themselves over the game- Bird just pulling wins out of the hat in the playoffs by intercepting an in bounds pass or making the clutchest of shots knowing he was bringing his team back. Hakeem, just blocking shots running the length and scoring through the double and triple team, taking the game in the fourth quarter while everyone one else could only stand there... ie David Robinson getting spun dizzy in the playoffs. Jordan- just taking it over. period - give him the ball. The only other player I've seen do it is Magic Johnson. I saw Tracy McGrady do it to San Antonio- you cannot describe or explain what Tracy did those last 33 seconds against San Antonio. I am sorry Lebron has not had a moment like that. I believe Tracy has that ability... it has peaked out from him a little. No double both guys can be called dominate. Lebron certainly is younger and has a stronger looking body, but TMac just seems more special to me. I think you might want to watch a replay of that San Antonio game. It is too freakish.
As of today, they are very close to equal players. Both teams would probably be worse if they switched teams because the Rockets are more built for the half court. However Lebron would most probably be the 1st player drafted in all the NBA players we redrafted today, because he has a good 15 years of excellence facing him. 30 out of 30 GMs would trade Tmac for Lebron for the extra 5-6 years. But let us also get REAL here. Knowing what we know now about how they progressed in their career, if you had an 20 old versions of Wilt, MJ, Kareem, Shaq, Hakeem, Magic, Bird, or Oscar every single one of them would be taken BEFORE Lebron. Let him win some rings and advance his team through the playoffs through clutch play before you start making these kind of comparisons. Further, Lebron's individual numbers don't even stack up as a young player to the best of all time, particularly considering FG%--a critical measure of player efficiency and impact. Let me give you some examples: -As a ROOKIE (just 1 year older than Lebron is now), Kareem put up 29PPG (on 57% shooting), 15RBG, 4APG and (probably) 4BPG. -MJ as a ROOKIE (21) put up 28PPG (on 52% shooting), 7, 6, and 2STL. -Wilt as a ROOKIE (22) put up 38PPG (on 58% shooting), 27 RPB and (probably 5+ BPG) These kind of comparisons should end for Lebron, he has at best a 1/20 chance of continuing to develop to a point where he surpasses any of these three guys as a basketball player. Now young versions of DrJ, Duncan, Barkley, Malone (Moses or Karl), David Robinson, Russell, West, players just below the greatest of all--those kind of alternates to Lebron on draft day you might have a tough call to make. That makes Lebron an awefully special prospect, certainly the best to come along since Duncan or Shaq.
At 20, MJ was no Lebron By Marc Stein ESPN.com DENVER -- It was once known as an age-old debate in this league. It is now just an old-age question. Remember when we used to ask: Who was better at 21 ... at 23 ... at 25? Kobe Bryant? Besides his eye-popping athleticism, what sets LeBron apart is his court awareness and savvy. Or Michael Jordan? Remember that one? It's actually an easily forgotten question in these LeBron James days. LeBron has succeeded Kobe as the bearer of the Next Jordan burden, and perhaps the greatest tribute to the kid is that you never hear that question any more. Whenever someone presents King James as the new heir to His Airness, no one dares to suggest that Jordan — who turned 42 on Thursday, incidentally — could compare to James when he was 20. "LeBron, at 20 ... he's awesome," says Magic Johnson, probably the last 20-year-old to leave us this awestruck. "When you think about his age and what he has done," adds NBA super fan Spike Lee, "he's a man-child." Scottie Pippen's conclusive assessment: "No one can say that Michael was better than LeBron at LeBron's age right now." It doesn't matter to even the biggest names in the game that LeBron James has yet to play a single minute of playoff basketball or that he's still so guarded in his interviews that he truly prefers to let us know almost nothing about him. Almost everyone has seen enough already to know that we've never seen a 20-year-old like this one. "I think he's doing fine," Jordan deadpanned last week. "I think the thing about LeBron ... he does what's best for LeBron and not what people expect him to do in relationship to what Michael Jordan did." What he's doing is coming to Denver for All-Star Weekend as a Shaq-sized star attraction in what was supposed to be his buddy Carmelo Anthony's weekend. Shaquille O'Neal aside, no one bigger will be playing Sunday at the Pepsi Center. It was just a year ago that 'Melo wasn't far behind 'Bron in the darling standings. James would wind up winning Rookie of the Year honors, but Anthony's Nuggets made it to the postseason, convincing many observers that (a) he should be the ROY and (b) Anthony would be the true host of the NBA's midseason showcase. “ He gets 25 points, seven-plus rebounds and seven assists in the flow of the game. He doesn't force anything ... and that's pretty incredible to be able to do that at 20 years old and still have room for improvement in his game. ” — Cavs GM Jim Paxson Turns out 'Melo didn't come close to earning a reserve spot on the West squad. 'Bron, meanwhile, is combining his size and athleticism with a court savvy beyond his years to a devastating effect. It's starting to look like he has a legit shot someday to live out his personal dream to average a triple-double for a whole season. So big and sculpted, at 6-foot-8 and 240, James has TNT's Charles Barkley regularly joking that he must be from the Dominican Republic. Which is Barkley's politically incorrect way of suggesting that there's no way LeBron can be only 20. Yet that's not what wows Jordan. "The best thing about it is that he's a mature kid," MJ says. And it's really that maturity, as much as the flashes of Magic and Michael, that makes LeBron such a strong bet to overcome all the Next Jordan negatives. You can be fairly certain hype or pressure won't be his problem, given how James has been dealing with MJ-like scrutiny since he was, oh, about 14. "He loves being on stage," Cavaliers coach Paul Silas says. "I've never seen anybody as readily acceptable to that kind of thing as he is." Says Orlando's Grant Hill, who knows as well as anyone what it's like to shoulder Next Jordan pressures: "He just has unbelievable composure for a guy so young, whether he's getting trapped or double-teamed in the post or dealing with the media and all that comes with it off the court." No less impressive has been James' response to the few strains of adversity he has encountered in his hoops life. He was chastised often throughout his rookie season about his shaky jumper. The response was spending day after day in a locked-doors gym getting ready for the Olympics with former Cavaliers assistant coach Bob Donewald. The agenda was simple: Just fix it. "He's obviously got all-world talent, and he knows he's talented, but the level at which he works at [his game] is a class above," Donewald says. "Every shot he takes [in practice], every cut he makes, it's like a championship game to him. "People talk about his shot being better, but it's just as much that his footwork is better. He didn't have to worry about his feet in high school because he was so good. But he knew he had to clean up his footwork, so that's all he wanted to do last summer." Well, that's not all. He wanted to win a gold medal playing for Larry Brown, a coach James talked about even before he was drafted. Instead James came away with a bronze and limited minutes off the bench ... and came back to Cleveland knowing that his pal Carlos Boozer was now a member of the Utah Jazz. Of course, the next time James whines out loud about any of that (or anything else) will be the first. We know, we know. It all sounds like a too-good-to-be-true package. Before LeBron, only Magic showed the same all-around prowess at age 20. But so far it is. That label fits as James readies for his first All-Star start, having finished ahead of Allen Iverson, Jason Kidd and every other East guard in worldwide fan balloting. It would seem, at this point, that only two variables can stop the slobbering from peers, pundits and the public. Injury is one. The other is a lack of playoff success. Jordan didn't win a title until his seventh season, and Bryant hasn't won one without Shaq as a sidekick, but there's also no forgetting that LeBron's next playoff game will be his first. Public opinion can change quickly if, say, Cleveland is a first-round loser this spring. So there's still plenty to prove, given that all the compliments and endorsements in Kings James' universe don't guarantee Jordanesque moments on the big stage. Not that you'll find anyone to bet against James' winning the multiple rings he'll need to be classified as an all-time great. Not after a season and a half of somehow exceeding expectations that seemed impossible to meet when LeBron started wearing No. 23 for the Cavs. "His passing ability is like a Magic Johnson, and his athletic ability is like a Jordan," says Cavaliers general manager Jim Paxson. "He gets 25 points, seven-plus rebounds and seven assists in the flow of the game. He doesn't force anything ... and that's pretty incredible to be able to do that at 20 years old and still have room for improvement in his game." Yet Paxson adds: "Michael could be the greatest of all time, and LeBron has a chance to challenge that. But it will be dependant on how many championships LeBron wins, I think, to really determine his greatness as a player." Says Magic: "I see a little bit of Michael in him, and I see a little bit of me in him. Now he needs to win championships like Michael and I did, and I'm sure one day that will happen." In Cleveland? The city that shudders if someone merely whispers the initials M and J together? "I think the most important thing was Mike's tenacity," Silas says. "He wanted to win — he wanted to destroy his opponent — and LeBron is developing that. And once that comes, there's no stopping him." Says Jordan: "The comparisons, I don't think they're coming from LeBron. I think he welcomes that, as I did when I was compared with Doctor J, but I think he's just trying to be LeBron." Sounds like it. "I'm in control of my destiny," James says. "When I'll be done playing, I don't want people to say, 'Well, he ended up the same way as this person or that player.' I want people to say, 'LeBron James did it his way, and now he's a legend.'" "In time," Orlando's Hill believes, "...I think people will be saying 'The Next LeBron.'" Maybe not by Monday, but check back in June.
We will have to wait for 12 years to see what kind of player Lebron will be. My personal feeling is that he won't be much better in 5 years than what he is now and I don't like that kind of hype at all. I will take TMac for now. Maybe I will change my opinion in 5 years when Tracy reaches 30.
I agree...he'll be a bad-ass. But it will not match the Jordan comparisons (coming from the media and fans, not LJ)....there's just too much to overcome. Any player that is compared to Jordan when entering the league has never lived up to the hype. Here are somethings that he has going against him... Some Jordan characteristics and accomplishments: * 6 Rings; may have gotten more if he hadn't retired * Averaged over 35+pt for two years * Averaged 32ppg, 8ast, and 8rpg one year * Lead the league in scoring and also got voted into the ALL-DEFENSIVE team. * Freakish 48 inch vertical leap and was ALSO 6'6" * Scored many 60pt, 50pt, 40pt, 30pt, 20pt games; the numbers are amazing! * A competitive drive like no other! So, that being said....the player usually gets caught in the hype before the results. If you watch their games...they do not play the same. Jordan could score sooooo easily; 30pts for him was average! They need to let LeBron, be himself. If he's better, we'll all know! But the constant reminders is just trying to hype the situation before "it" happens. This will backfire on LJ. He'll be great. But NOT live up to the hype. He's a unique player; 240lbs, 6'8, score, rebound, assist. He's more of a power-small-forward than a quick, cutting, shooting guard. He's just different. I think what happens is that the media and fans get caught up in the fact that LJ (and Kobe) started at such a young age (20-22). They think, "Oh, Kobe did more at 22 than Jordan did at the same age! He must be better!" Uh, no he's not! It's not the same. Players are judged on their whole careers. Not how they start.
He's already a 25/7/7 player right now, so how much better does he need to get? I think his rebounds and assists will remain close to the same throughout his career. But as good a scorer as he is now, he's still got a long ways to go. His jumper is not even close to being a finished product. With his size, he should have no problem developing a post up game eventually. His defense should also improve.
Just be happy with TMac .. LeBron is just a dream .... LeBron will stay with Cleveland most likely. If he ever moves to another team then LA, NYC, and Chicago have the edge ...
Well Said! Before make too high a hype for Lebron, bring him to West Conference first. Except Heats, those east teams are nothing and many players are overrated.
watched Lebron alot noticed last night against Wolves doesn't elevate on his shot like TMac Doesn't have the first step quickness of TMac Will one day be, but not yet is the outside shooter TMac is now Is stronger than TMac He is smart and doesn't force his game But I would much rather have TMac given a straight up choice. Why?---- color of the uniform they are wearing
long replies on here sometimes, so I didn't read though it all, but I choose McGrady just b/c of his "big-shot-making" ability. I honestly haven't watch Lebron close enough to know if he has that in him just yet. So I'll take T-Mac right now. He's just so clutch. Again, I have no idea how Lebron is in that facet of the game.
You mean the same Drew Gooden who couldn't beat out Juwan Howard for a starting job last year? On a team that seemingly would be looking towards the future? No way LBJ has better teammates. The impact Z has on a game is not that close to Yao, despite what the stats would lead you to believe.
Didn't Tracy totally shut down Lebron the last time we played them? Didn't Yao eat big Z alive when we met them last time in Cleveland that Z man could only score points when Yao was on the bench?
