PG, Its been a year. Are you ever going to get over the T-Mac/Francis trade or are you gonna just be bitter forever? lol
What are you talking about? I was making a valid point. To sit here and to write something like T-Mac has accomplished more than anyone is ridiculous. I can name any run of the mill player who has been to the playoffs once and write that. I put Steve Francis because people here are familiar with him.
I agree with Sauerkraut. LeBron IMHO is a better "3" and a better "player" than T-Mac. Not to say I'd trade T-Mac to get Lebron b/c I wouldn't...our team chemistry is too good.
whoever said lebron > tmac is just r****ded.. his numbers maybe better..but if tmac were on the cavs..he would have another scoring title..but thats not what he wants to do..he wants to win..therefore he sacrificed some of his points to get others involved.....lebron is good..and maybe in 5+ years he will be better then tmac..but right now and in the near future tmac >>> lebron... watch the rockets vs cavs games...tmac outshined lebron in ALL of them... and yes.i know this isnt a good way to compare players ability..im just saying it to further prove a point.
I don't think the guy with the most championships is definitely the best player. Is Tim Duncan better than Hakeem? I don't think so. Too many other variables. I agree that I think James will be (or is) better. 27/7/7 is just incredible.
I think it's very fair to say that James may be better. I don't think the argument can be made the Lebron's stats were inflated because he played on a bad team. First of all - the team wasn't that bad. TMac took more 3-ptr's a game too and shot a lower percentage from both within and outside of the arc. Lebron's stats were just slightly better across the board. TMac averaged less ppg on more shots per game. So no I don't think someone who thinks that James > TMac is "r****ded".
Lebron is unbelievably talented and so is McGrady. I put them as equals for the most part. McGrady is the better pure shooter, but relies on his shot too much instead of driving it the hole consistently like he should (Lebron does). McGrady has proven it in the clutch at the end of games, but Lebron has not. McGrady is the better on the ball defender, but James is a better off the ball defender. Both of them could average 30ppg 5apg 5rpg and lead their teams into the playoffs as a top 3 team in their respective conferences.
Lebron hasn't proven that yet. His team faded badly at the end of the season. And he couldn't rally them into the playoffs. Yeah, he's gotta have better pieces, granted. But he got beat out by a horrid Philly team and a team in Indy that had been decimated with suspensions and injuries. Yes, he is a phenomenal talent but he is what TMac was 4 or 5 years ago. He hasn't figured out how to win and inflluence his teammates to play better yet. TMac figured that out with Van Gundy last year. If they were to meet in the playoffs, TMac would have the advantage because of his experience.
I think it's a valid point that McGrady is more experienced and is more the winner. However, this is no knock on McGrady, but getting to the 1st round of the playoffs is nothing to write home about and isn't considered "being a winner." This kind of reminds me of when we traded Jim Jackson for David Wesley and some posters on the board said that "you should never trade big for small" as if Jim Jackson is really a big. Same concept at hand. I'm not saying he's a loser or anything, he's on his way there and has done as expected of him, it's just fallacious to say McGrady is a winner and then say Lebron isn't when he's only 20 and has had ZERO on his teams. I would give James the nod because he does the majority of his damage in the paint. That is always more reliable. My only knock on McGrady is that he tends to settle for the outside shot too much. He's not as good a finisher in traffic as I thought he would be. The percentages reflect that James is a better shooter across the board, but reality is that McGrady is the better outside shooter. James is a better off the ball defender while McGrady is probably the 2nd best on the ball defensive swingman in the game. They are equal in terms of ball handling, playmaking, and passing/creativity. They are both out of this world in regards to passing/creativity and that's what makes them great players not just great scorers. Lebron is the better rebounder. The difference between the two is so little that I wouldn't ever bother trading T-Mac for Lebron for next season.
what about in-game defense...and if the rox could hit open jumpers..his assist would equal or surpass lebrons..or are you basing a good player entirely on offense alone...
Mcgrady is a better scorer than Lebron at this point in his career. Lebron is the better all around player.
I haven't seen Lebron play too much. I know he did get 2.2 steals a game (more than TMac). Who knows? - maybe he just gambled on defense a lot. I am very sure that both these guys can be great defenders. The athleticism and smarts are both there. TMac kicked it up a notch this year. Likewise - how does Lebron get so many assists if his teams "sucks". They are both great players. I just don't think it's ridiculous to say that Lebron is be better. I think there are no doubts here that Lebron has more potential and his career is progressing at a much faster pace than TMac's.
LeBron gets more assists because he is a better playmaker; his teammates are downright awful shooters. Look at the Cav's 3 point percentage and makes last year, among the worst in the league. LeBron was the best shooter on the team after McGinnis quit, and that's pretty sad. However, T-Mac does have better defense, though LeBron has a defensive coach this year. His steals are often game-changers.
Yeah, you have to have criteria when relating players. Who would I rather have for the upcoming season? T-mac!!!! He's hitting his prime. If I was signing a max contract and trying to build a franchise....probably Lebron. T-mac put up similar numbers when he was 21... Tmac is more deadly now because he wants to win more. But, Lebron looks like he might be on his way to a much more legendary career.... I'm just freakin' happy we have such a superstar on our team so ya'll can have these arguments!!!!
carmelo shouldnt be that high on the list, ....he shouldnt be on their period. and artest should be right under kiri. follow by tmac the rest of the list isnt too bad.
People are undervaluing Tmac's defensive abilities. Tmac > Lebron, Lebron needs to work on his defense. Offensively Lebron may have an advantage due to his willingness to go to the hole all night and not rely on the jumper. But, I remember the cavs game last season, Tmac drove to the hole the WHOLE game, almost every play was a layup/dunk or in the paint. I'm thinking it was a statement to show Lebron he has more growing to do defensively. Lebron is one of my favorite players but when I see all of this higher praise of lebron over tmac I just feel like defense is obviously overlooked.
How about a rating scale (1-10)? Just for fun, here is my "scouting report," with Ray Allen and Jason Richardson thrown in for comparison. Physical Attributes T-Mac 9 a combination of great height, freakishly long arms, great jumping ability and lateral movement makes him a matchup nightmare for any SG in the league, a little skinny when matched up against some defensive stoppers like Artest. Lebron 10 great height, built like a tank, great jumping ability, scary thing is that he is still growing into his body Ray Allen 6 getting up there in age, he is not the leaper he used to be, but is quick enough to get his jumper off against anyone. at 6'5" has average height for a SG J Rich 9 solidly built, incredible vertical, but cursed by the ability to only jump off of 2 feet... makes for great highlight dunks, but limits his ability to finish in traffic when compared to T-Mac and Lebron Shooting T-Mac 7 he's no ray allen, but T-Mac has great range, can hit from outside or mid-range, and can pull up from anywhere on the court. when he's on fire from outside, he is truly unguardable. more streaky than a pure outside shooter. shot only 32.6% from 3 last season. Lebron 6 improving range and accuracy, improved dramatically from his rookie season, actually shot better from 3 than T-Mac last season Ray Allen 10 the best shooter in the game, despite a down year J Rich 4 he's getting better, improving his % every year. still a horible FT shooter. Passing T-Mac 8 great ability to create for his teammates, he's much better than most point guards. see the Dallas series? 'nuff said Lebron 9 short of jason kidd and maybe steve nash, he may be the most gifted passer in the game, would have averaged way less TOs if braindead teammates like Drew Gooden could catch his passes. Ray Allen 6 Is a pretty good passer, but his numbers are avg at best. J Rich 5 Average passer at best, to his credit has upped his assists numbers every year. Finishing T-Mac 9 when he wants to, can be a great finisher, but loses a point for settling for his jumpshot too often Lebron 10 his body was built to absorb and deliver contact... 47% from the field, 35% from 3, average jump shooter = extremely high percentage of buckets around the rim. i'd like to see a stat on the % of his baskets within 3 feet from last season. Ray Allen 7 A very solid finisher when he gets into the lane, not a big dunker but has great body control J Rich 7 The guy is a freakish athlete and can really throw it down, but his inability to get air off of one foot a la Drexler means he will never be able to glide through the lane like the great finishers of all time. Defense T-Mac 9 would be a 10 if he locked people down more consistently, incredible job on Nowitzki in the playoffs. Freakishly long arms = steals and blocks Lebron 7 don't let all the steals fool you, he still needs work, but has the physical and mental skills to be a top defender a la Ron Artest Ray Allen 6 Just a solid defender, nothing special J Rich 6 An improving defender, has the physical skills to be very good. Rebounding T-Mac 8 he averaged almost 8 one season, not his role to be a rebounder Lebron 9 he could play power forward full-time if required Ray Allen 5 avg rebounder, getting 4.5-5.5 a game J Rich 8 a very good rebounder for a SG, loves to crash the boards Ball Handling T-Mac 8 could play the point, the ball is always in his hands Lebron 8 *did* play the point, as a rookie Ray Allen 7 very solid ball handler, initiates the offense may times J Rich 4 below average ball handler Total T-Mac 58 Lebron 59 Ray Allen 47 J Rich 43 Of course we could make this scientific with different weights for the different categories, but as an exercise, well you can't go wrong with either... you could say that Lebron hasn't even gotten into the playoffs yet, but the counter argument would be that he's only 20 and has time on his side compared to the still very young T-Mac... both are awesome players and by all accounts good people and teammates. I'll just say that I'd take either over Kobe any day, though I'd have to give Kobe bonus points for being the most ruthless and focused of any SG/SF.
Being focused on your self interests as opposed to the interests of the team doesn't earn any points in my book. Good post, though. I agree with most the points you made.
